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Post by icnivad on Apr 5, 2011 8:50:44 GMT -5
How many minors are there that we have to get back?
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Post by reefwood on Apr 5, 2011 9:58:18 GMT -5
How many minors are there that we have to get back? 11 miner dwarves in total: Orthur the expedition leader (Exp7) and his crew (Exp4 x10). |
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Post by icnivad on Apr 5, 2011 12:34:09 GMT -5
11 dwarves
3 PCs
3 Grunts (Bodyguard, Duncan and Hunter)
2 large undead (Ghoul and Skeletor)
4 Nightmares
2 Eyrines
Is this full and correct?
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Post by reefwood on Apr 5, 2011 12:37:58 GMT -5
11 dwarves 3 PCs 3 Grunts (Bodyguard, Duncan and Hunter) 2 large undead (Ghoul and Skeletor) 4 Nightmares 2 Eyrines Is this full and correct? Almost...there is also Paulson (Sahme's remaining grunt) and Brion's new cohort (medium creature). Looks like 21 medium and 6 large creatures total. EDIT:21 Medium CreaturesBrion -Hunter -Duncan -Cohort Sahme -Paulson Nimarius -Bodyguard -2 Erinyes Orthur -10 miners 6 Large Creatures-Ghoul -Skeletor -4 Nightmares In terms of teleport, the 6 Large count as 12 Medium, so that gives a total of 33 Medium creatures...32 not counting Nim. Nim can take 4 Medium creatures per casting: 1. teleport 1-4 to New Briar 2. teleport to swamp 3. teleport 5-8 to New Briar 4. teleport to swamp 5. teleport 9-12 to New Briar 6. teleport to swamp 7. teleport 13-16 to New Briar 8. teleport to swamp 9. teleport 17-20 to New Briar 10. teleport to swamp 11. teleport 21-24 to New Briar 12. teleport to swamp 13. teleport 25-28 to New Briar 14. teleport to swamp 15. teleport 29-32 to New Briar It would require 15 teleports to do this, and I believe Nim can have up to 12 teleports per day (four 5th-level slots + four 6th + three 7th + one from arcane item) and have them ready by 1am (after prepping 1 hr at midnight) as long as Nim rests and doesn't cast any spells from these slots between now and then. Also, Brion has word of recall, and I think he can prep up to 3 if he maxes out his higher level slots for it, but these won't be ready until 7am, and again, only if he doesn't use these slots for anything else in the 8 hrs before 6am. Brion doesn't need to rest to prep spells, just has to wait til dawn, but if he is Tired or Drowsy while casting, he will need to make Concentration checks. Nim & Brion working together (1-31 Medium creatures): 1. teleport 1-4 to New Briar and word of recall 5-8 to NB embassy 2. teleport to swamp with Brion 3. teleport 9-12 to New Briar and word of recall 13-16 to NB embassy 4. teleport to swamp with Brion 5. teleport 17-20 to New Briar and word of recall 21-24 to NB embassy 6. teleport to swamp 7. teleport 25-28 to New Briar 8. teleport to swamp 9. teleport 29-31 to New Briar Hmm...looks like this cuts it down to 9 teleports. Though, it could still be good to prep a few spares since it can fail or land you in the wrong place. |
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Post by michael on Apr 8, 2011 21:30:27 GMT -5
Does the main army have someone who can identify the magical effects on these items? We have access to CL 15 people for our rewards package, and Greater Arcane Sight can be cast by 13th level. It grants automatic knowledge of all magical effects on items, including artifacts.
If it's an option, my cohort can teleport back to camp with them, (or most any other piece of equipment) but I want to continue to refrain from touching them in any way until we know what they can do. Right now, I think they're wrapped in one of my spare white robes and stuffed inside a bag of holding. I'd like to identify the relic as well.
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Post by reefwood on Apr 8, 2011 23:41:24 GMT -5
Does the main army have someone who can identify the magical effects on these items? We have access to CL 15 people for our rewards package, and Greater Arcane Sight can be cast by 13th level. It grants automatic knowledge of all magical effects on items, including artifacts. If it's an option, my cohort can teleport back to camp with them, (or most any other piece of equipment) but I want to continue to refrain from touching them in any way until we know what they can do. Right now, I think they're wrapped in one of my spare white robes and stuffed inside a bag of holding. I'd like to identify the relic as well. This is a good question to bring up. It's one of those things where the system I set up didn't matter so much at early levels, but it gets kind of silly at higher levels, and I have been thinking about it a bit. First off, the actual CL depends on the specific package (standard = level, magic = level +2, hybrid = level +1). Brion could get a CL 15 with the magic combat package for Level 13, but Nim would only get CL 14 if he picks the standard combat package for Level 14. Second, the number of casters you can have working on items each day is half your level. That wasn't so bad at low-to-mid levels cos a 4th-level character has 2 casters between CL4-CL6 and an 8th-level character has 4 casters between CL8-CL10. That seems reasonable within an army of a few thousand. However, now Nim has access to 7 casters of CL14-16 and Brion has access to 6 casters of CL13-15 for a total of 13 casters who are all at least CL 13. That's kind of a lot of powerful casters to have working on items for only 2 people. Granted, I don't think anyone - at least at higher levels - has come close to filling their limit of casters per day, but it could definitely use some retooling. Off the top of my head...maybe the CL linked to packages should be the total number of caster levels. So, someone with a package that gives CL 14 could select one CL 7 and one CL 4 and one CL 3 to upgrade items during Time Off. Or two CL 7's. As the current rules stand, these CL's could only do up to 1,000 gp of magic upgrading per day, but if you selected a CL 11 and a CL 3, the CL 11 could do up to 2,000 gp of magic upgrading per day. Anyway, I'm not going to change this for right but maybe for next time. Third, I have let the main army automatically identify magic items once the squad is able to reach the main army... which used to be more of a task than it is now, so when you did reunite, the free identifying was just like a free perk. Now it's pretty easy for you to reach the main army by casting one spell, which is fine since you do have to expend that spell if you want to do this in the middle of a mission. The current situation is a bit wonky because you have finished a chapter but are still technically in the middle of a mission. I decided to cut down all chapters to a single session since there is more gaming these days (which is awesome!), and I don't want a single chapter split into two sessions to be stretched across weeks cos it can be easy to forget details. Also, I don't want the PCs who level up to have to wait to get their rewards, so I've had the main army do an "item drop" or "pick up" with teleports, but the purpose is really just to deliver rewards and complete upgrades. And under the current circumstance, I'm also letting them drop off cohorts and followers. It's a little silly to think that the army would make all this effort to give you stuff but wouldn't just teleport you back to New Briar...but getting back to New Briar is up to the squad, even if you just use your own teleports to get back. Maybe after this level up, I'll just make up some sort of teleport object item that only the main army can use. A box or something that they use to deliver and pick up items from faraway squads. That way reward packages can be handled without the use of powerful casters that probably have better things to do than act as a delivery service. But I'm totally getting off topic here. My third point actually is that automatically identifying a potion of cure light wounds is no big deal, but more powerful items should be trickier. I am going to say that right now the main army cannot identify those items for you. In part because you would have to deliver the items yourselves for the army to do this. However, I will set up some sort of system to do this...probably similar to the system with the Expert crafters using the Craft skill to retrofit full plate and repair nonmagic items. And it will be ready by the next session, so if you want try do this during the next session, you can. As for the items in question. No one has checked to see if they are magic, and I believe each item is in the hands of a different undead (erinyes #1, erinyes #2, and ghoul?) cos none of the living characters wanted to touch them. If the waraxe was placed in a bag of holding, which it wasn't, it would have had a chance to cut open the bag. The relic belongs to the dwarf and was put in his pack the last you saw. If you want to do anything with the relic, you will have to talk to him about it. EDIT: Additionally, I don't know the exact story of your cohort, but he certainly was not part of the army, so he would not be known to the main army. Something to keep in mind if you want to send him there alone... and he could not take all 3 items at once cos together they weigh more than 50 lbs. |
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Post by reefwood on Apr 9, 2011 2:04:06 GMT -5
Re: Identifying Magic Items
I did some quick number crunching...so don't think this is totally correct or set in stone yet...but I do want to separate the identifying of magic items from the creation of magic items. I know it may seem a bit odd, but the people making magic items are just there to make magic items. It gives a reason for how soldiers obtain equipment but is not meant to serve other purposes.
Anyway, I wish there was an NPC caster class that used arcane magic and Intelligence, but there isn't, and it turns out the Adept will work just fine for what I have in mind. A soldier can have access to an Adept of half their level.
A 1st-level soldier would not get access to an Adept.
A 2nd-level soldier would get access to a 1st-level human Adept who could have a Spellcraft of 1 rank +3 train +2 Int mod +3 feat +2 feat = +11.
A 14th-level soldier/officer would get access to a 7th-level human Adept who could have a Spellcraft of 7 ranks +3 train +3 Int mod +3 feat +2 feat = +18.
I believe the only useful spell that an Adept has to identify magic items is detect magic, which seems fine to me, especially given the incredibly high Spellcraft modifiers they can reach even at low levels. Plus, an Adept who focuses on Int won't have access to spells above 2nd-level anyway, but if I missed a useful higher level spell, let me know, and I can play around with the numbers.
The level of this Adept would be based on PC level, so not tied into reward packages. Since it would be based on half the PC level, the level of this Adept would go up every other PC level, so if he fails to identify an item, and you want him to try again later, you will have to wait until he levels up and puts another point into Spellcraft.
And since magic items found on a mission can be claimed by anyone, it may make the most sense to say that your squad is assigned to a particular Adept, so his level will be based on the highest level PC. Right now that is Nim, but if someone gets to a higher level, the Adept will level up accordingly.
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Post by michael on Apr 9, 2011 3:35:52 GMT -5
If we want it to make a bit more sense for this specific situation, I was imagining my cohort doing most of the back and forth item transport for Brion's upgrades. I could use the Amulet of Sending to tell the army to expect him, write him a proper letter of introduction, then have him take items back and forth. The only things he couldn't transport would be Skeltor and his armor. (But if Nim is fabricating the armor, he could transport the raw materials over several teleports.)
I plan on writing a bit of background on this point, as well as giving him a name soon.
I kind of like this system. I went looking for spells that can help identify items and found the spell Identify! It's a first level Bard or Sorcerer/Wizard spell that functions like Detect Magic with a +10 bonus to identifying magical properties.
I also came across Analyze Dweomer and Legend Lore, but both of these are too high a level for the Adept to use. Legend Lore looks especially cool to me, though less useful for identifying an item's properties. If I bought a wand of Legend Lore and had a Bard follower or a follower with Use Magic Device, he could cast it, right? (If I can talk the dwarf into letting the hound archon take the relic to have this spell cast on it, I'd love to hear the legends about it.)
Since these adepts are working for the military, do they also get 2 military skills like new PCs? If they do, that would add half the adept's HD to spellcraft.
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Post by icnivad on Apr 9, 2011 13:03:52 GMT -5
You know, Identifying the properties of a magic item is DC 15+caster level, or 35 for pre-epic. Nimarious has a +32 spellcraft, so we might be overthinking this problem a bit.  He has Identify in his spellbook, but not memorized. He does have Detect Magic as one of his 0 level spells, and can spend some of the 5 hours looking at the items we found. And if you wanted to buy a scroll of Analyze Dweomer or Legend Lore, Nim would be happy to learn it. |
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Post by icnivad on Apr 9, 2011 13:26:20 GMT -5
Moving the armor spikes might take too long to be practical to save a mere 2k. Can I shuffle some skills out of knowledge into craft (weaponsmithing) so I can make it myself?
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Post by icnivad on Apr 9, 2011 13:33:57 GMT -5
21 Medium Creatures
Brion
-Hunter
-Duncan
-Cohort
Sahme
-Paulson
Nimarius
-Bodyguard
-2 Erinyes
Orthur
-10 miners
6 Large Creatures
-Ghoul
-Skeletor
-4 Nightmares
Might be better just to combine wind walk, nightmares, and Phantom Steeds (which can now fly) to get back quickly.
Nightmares 1-4: 8 passengers
Wind walk: Brion, Skeletor, Ghoul, 2 more.
That leaves 11 for maybe another casting of wind walk, and 7 phantom steeds?
If it was just 20 miles, at 18MPH(Nightmare speed), we should be able to get back in just over an hour.
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Post by reefwood on Apr 9, 2011 13:55:16 GMT -5
I'm not going to worry about this for the rewards, upgrades, equipment locker, or Leadership minions. The main army can take care of it with teleports this time, and I'll switch over to the teleport object box next time. Anything else that you want to take to the main army will have to done by the squad during the next session. Also, the amulet of sending (3/day) is primarily for mission reports. One in the morning and one in the evening. I haven't bothered to keep much track of this, but there is a purpose for it, so I should be more on top of this. Right now mission reports go to Captain Whimsir in New Briar, but that still leaves you with one sending to use as you wish. Okay, cool... and it doesn't really matter much to me either way, but I just want to make sure he is just not another soldier. Although, he could still be all about the Nemedoran effort. Yeah, identify used to automatically identify magic items, but it required a 100 gp pearl for each casting. In addition to spellcasting service cost if you had someone outside the party do it. But also, a Cleric with the magic domain could do it for free, so that was kind of a funny loophole that perhaps got abused too much, so now the spell is free and increases your chances but isn't an auto success. Although, I don't think this spell is on the Adept spell list. Also, I realized that Nim will always have a better Spellcraft than the Adept, so the best bet will probably always be to have him try, but the Adept could still be useful for when Nim doesn't have detect magic prepared, or if he fails the check, or if he dies. And anyone with ranks in Use Magic Device can attempt to activate a wand. If the character has the wand's spell on their spell list, they can do it without a check. But wands can only hold spells up to 4th level. No. Only the PCs receive this special training. It's what makes you special  I actually debated this back at the start of the campaign...whether or not all or some other NPCs would have military feats and skills but decided against it in the end cos if everyone in both armies had them, they would sort of cancel out. |
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Post by reefwood on Apr 9, 2011 14:01:25 GMT -5
Moving the armor spikes might take too long to be practical to save a mere 2k. Can I shuffle some skills out of knowledge into craft (weaponsmithing) so I can make it myself? Yeah, you can still shuffle around the ranks you just received for Level 14. |
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Post by reefwood on Apr 9, 2011 15:15:39 GMT -5
21 Medium Creatures Brion -Hunter -Duncan -Cohort Sahme -Paulson Nimarius -Bodyguard -2 Erinyes Orthur -10 miners 6 Large Creatures -Ghoul -Skeletor -4 Nightmares Might be better just to combine wind walk, nightmares, and Phantom Steeds (which can now fly) to get back quickly. Nightmares 1-4: 8 passengers Wind walk: Brion, Skeletor, Ghoul, 2 more. That leaves 11 for maybe another casting of wind walk, and 7 phantom steeds? If it was just 20 miles, at 18MPH(Nightmare speed), we should be able to get back in just over an hour. If the nightmares carry 2 medium creatures, they might be at a Medium or Heavy load, and if so, their 90 ft speed is reduced to 60 ft. Also, phantom steed is the spell that doesn't work so well for mindless undead. It can be cast for them, but they cannot control the steed, so it would just stand there. Of course, there are plenty of intelligent Medium creatures to ride these 7. |
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Post by michael on Apr 9, 2011 17:19:10 GMT -5
Ha, yeah, I don't know why I never thought of Nim's ridiculous spellcraft score. If you use Identify, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for you to fail unless it's an artifact, so Analyze Dweomer would be pointless to get. The only other useful spell would be Greater Arcane Sight, which will automatically tell you all magical effects on any item, artifact or not. It would be 2,250 gp for a scroll, though, and would only get used when we're looking at artifacts. Unless you can't identify the other items we brought up with the relic, I don't think it's worth it right now.
Legend Lore is more for flavor than practicality in most cases, but it would be fun to have. (Great legends about the person/place/thing are brought to mind, even if those legends have been long forgotten or never widely known.) It would be 1000 gp to get a scroll of Legend Lore scribed by a bard. You could still scribe that into your spellbook even though a bard made the scroll, right? I might end up getting that one.
I could prepare Wind Walk up to 4 times if I used all of my 6 & 7 level slots, and it's Brion + 4 others per casting.
It might be worth it to use teleport instead of Phantom Steed, just to limit the number of people on horses; the air above the swamp is still dangerous, and if you're hit on horseback, it's a ride check to stay in the saddle. People in Wind Walk form can outrun just about anything, but the rest are in quite a bit of danger if something comes at them.
What about this?
Teleport x4
-Othur
-7 miners
Wind Walk x3
Brion
-Hunter
-Duncan
-Cohort
Sahme
-Paulson
Nimarius
-Bodyguard
-3 miners
Ghoul
Skeletor
Nim can have Wind Walk cast on him but remain in solid form so he can ride the Nightmares with the Erinyes and guide them.
This is a much safer way to travel, but it also uses 3 level 6 spells. Depending on what happens when we're back in New Briar, though, that might not be an issue. We may get to rest before more tasks anyway.
If we wanted to to one less Wind Walk, we could have cohort, Nimarius, Sahme, and Paulson riding. Nim can cast Phantom Steed once, cohort can teleport himself, and the others can ride the Nightmares.
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He has Identify in his spellbook, but not memorized. He does have Detect Magic as one of his 0 level spells, and can spend some of the 5 hours looking at the items we found.