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Post by icnivad on Mar 5, 2011 11:51:30 GMT -5
sheet updated. By the way, I never studied black tentacles, but I've subtracted the ink from the others.
I haven't selected my equipment yet, but I'll get the adamantine.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 5, 2011 19:52:26 GMT -5
sheet updated. By the way, I never studied black tentacles, but I've subtracted the ink from the others. I haven't selected my equipment yet, but I'll get the adamantine. Are you sure about black tentacles? I have it written in my notes, and it has been added to your spellbook since last time. |
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2011 20:05:37 GMT -5
sheet updated. By the way, I never studied black tentacles, but I've subtracted the ink from the others. I haven't selected my equipment yet, but I'll get the adamantine. Are you sure about black tentacles? I have it written in my notes, and it has been added to your spellbook since last time. If he doesn't have it, he should. I just looked that spell up, and it's awesome. Thanks for the adamantine, by the way. |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 6, 2011 13:29:29 GMT -5
Oh. Maybe I did. I still had the scroll in my inventory, so I figured I hadn't. I'll deduct the ink for it.
And yeah, it looks like a good spell to disable a whole crew of people. And it's only level 4, so I should be able to cast it a few times without interfering with my other good spells.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 6, 2011 15:43:07 GMT -5
Question: With the appropriate two weapon fighting feats, spiked armor lets a character make an offhand attack and still use a two handed weapon, right? I'm building the skeleton champion to use a Falchion and spiked armor, and wanted to make sure that would work. Another question: Would I be able to build him as an evil paladin? Sort of an evil holy warrior? If so, how would the mount work for an already large creature? Alternatively, what about the holy vindicator class? paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/prestigeClasses/holyVindicator.html That + cleric would work. |
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Post by reefwood on Mar 6, 2011 21:34:05 GMT -5
Question: With the appropriate two weapon fighting feats, spiked armor lets a character make an offhand attack and still use a two handed weapon, right? I'm building the skeleton champion to use a Falchion and spiked armor, and wanted to make sure that would work. What feat are you talking about? The normal Two-Weapon Fighting feat lets you attack with a weapon in each hand. Not one weapon in both hands and another attack with something else. There are also feats that let you know two-weapon fight with a shield. But I'm not seeing anything about spiked armor. No, paladins are lawful good, and I like to keep them that way in my games. As for prestige classes, anything from the Core Rulebook works but not the APG. |
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Post by reefwood on Mar 6, 2011 22:06:41 GMT -5
Question: With the appropriate two weapon fighting feats, spiked armor lets a character make an offhand attack and still use a two handed weapon, right? I'm building the skeleton champion to use a Falchion and spiked armor, and wanted to make sure that would work. I did a little more digging, and the armor spikes description does say that you can make a regular melee attack or offhand attack with them (treated as light weapon). So you can make one attack with the weapon in your primary hand and an offhand attack with the armor spikes. However, you cannot two-weapon fight with a two-handed weapon cos it needs both your hands. Two-weapon fighting is for one weapon in primary hand and one weapon in offhand. Armor spikes let you make an offhand attack with them, but they specifically state that if you do this, you cannot make any other offhand attack. The offhand could not be used to make another attack which means you can only use your primary hand to make the other attack, so you could only attack with a weapon that your primary hand can wield. Not something that requires both hands. But I suppose this would still let you hold a shield in your offhand and retain that bonus (unless I'm missing something else about armor spikes?). |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 6, 2011 23:47:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure why an off-hand attack means your primary attack can't also be a two handed one? Not being able to make an offhand attack does not seem synonymous with a two-handed attack. I can't find anything about that. Can't a four armed creature make two two-handed attacks? A xill is listed as being able to make two longbow attacks, each of which is a two-handed weapon, which seems to support this. I'm fine either way, just seems that the rules support this.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 7, 2011 0:52:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure why an off-hand attack means your primary attack can't also be a two handed one? Not being able to make an offhand attack does not seem synonymous with a two-handed attack. I can't find anything about that. Can't a four armed creature make two two-handed attacks? A xill is listed as being able to make two longbow attacks, each of which is a two-handed weapon, which seems to support this. I'm fine either way, just seems that the rules support this. I wouldn't use a creature with four arms as a basis for how the normal rules work. The xill doesn't even have any two-weapon fighting feats. It has five natural attacks and can wield a weapon in four of them, and it also has an extraordinary ability that lets it do so without penatly. Though, I can't figure out why only 3 out of 4 arms have a sword or why the third sword attack is penalized. Anyway, two-weapon fighting is actually a special attack. You don't need any feats to do it. There are just huge penalties, and the feats help to lessen the penalty and make extra offhand attacks (along with special things like add full damage, get a shield bonus, maintain shield bonus when shield slamming, etc). Two-weapon fighting lets you make one attack with the weapon in your primary hand and one attack with the weapon in your offhand. Armor spikes let you make an offhand attack with them instead of your offhand, but you can't use your offhand to make a different attack. The armor spikes can be handy for making offhand attacks cos it frees up the offhand to hold other items (shield, potion, torch, wand, weapon that does a different kind of damage), so you can make an attack with your primary hand, an attack with your armor spikes, and have the offhand hang onto that other item, but you can't use the offhand to make an attack, which it would be doing if it was attacking with a two-handed weapon. The two-weapon fighting section even talks about double weapons and thrown weapons, but there is nothing about two-handed weapons. EDIT: I did some digging on the Paizo boards, and this topic seems to be still up for debate. There was a 3.5 FAQ that said a two-handed weapon was fine with armor spikes for two-weapon fighting, but there has been no ruling for Pathfinder. Though, the questions seems to come up a lot. Not sure if that means they are still trying to figure it out, or if it is simply up to DM discretion, or something else. Anyway, for the time being I am going to stick with my ruling. |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 7, 2011 12:58:46 GMT -5
Ok. Thanks for looking into it, though.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 7, 2011 13:25:38 GMT -5
Ok. Thanks for looking into it, though. One good combo for a two-handed weapon and armor spikes might be to use a reach weapon. That way the Large cohort threatens a very big area (15-20 ft) with the reach weapon and still threatens nearby (5-10 ft) with the armor spikes. Both weapons cannot be used at the same time, but they can be used at different times without hampering the other (i.e. don't have to wait til your turn to take one claw off the two-handed reach weapon to make a nearby attack with claw or vice versa). Combat Reflexes could make this even more useful with a decent Dex. Or you could take the claw off the two-handed weapon to two-weapon fight with the claw and armor spikes if making two weaker attacks works out better than one powerful attack. |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 7, 2011 17:06:29 GMT -5
Yeah. I was thinking about that combo. The only downside, is you that if the enemy closes all the way up, then I can't take a 5 foot step in order to hit with the more potent weapon. It would work better if he could wield the close range weapon with two hands, and the reach one with one hand in order to get attacks of opportunity. I can't see how to accomplish that, though.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 7, 2011 17:15:16 GMT -5
Another thought is taking monk levels in order to gain the ability to make a flurry of blows at close range, and still be able to wield a weapon for attacks of opportunity. One question I had, though, was about the wording of flurry of blows: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." Does this mean that a creature with 6HD of ogre skeleton, and 4 levels of Monk would have a standard BAB of +7, but would only be able to flurry at +2/+2? This seems pretty different from how it was handled in 3.5, so I wanted to verify I was reading it right.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 7, 2011 17:30:32 GMT -5
Had another thought.
Whirlwind: "Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent."
Trip: "You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like I could make a whirlwind of trips. Might be a good way to maintain battlefield control. It also sounds like a character with a reach weapon and spiked armor would be able to make whirlwind against all foes threatened by either weapon.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 7, 2011 18:46:27 GMT -5
Yeah. I was thinking about that combo. The only downside, is you that if the enemy closes all the way up, then I can't take a 5 foot step in order to hit with the more potent weapon. It would work better if he could wield the close range weapon with two hands, and the reach one with one hand in order to get attacks of opportunity. I can't see how to accomplish that, though. Yeah, I'm pretty sure all reach weapons are two-handed weapons, and that seems to be the trade-off. Another thought is taking monk levels in order to gain the ability to make a flurry of blows at close range, and still be able to wield a weapon for attacks of opportunity. One question I had, though, was about the wording of flurry of blows: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." Does this mean that a creature with 6HD of ogre skeleton, and 4 levels of Monk would have a standard BAB of +7, but would only be able to flurry at +2/+2? This seems pretty different from how it was handled in 3.5, so I wanted to verify I was reading it right. The monk thing only applies to the monk BAB. A Mnk4 has BAB +3 and a Sor4 has BAB +2, so a Mnk4/Sor4 would have a total 3+2 = BAB +5. When making a flurry, a Mnk4/Sor4 counts his Monk BAB as his levels, so it would be 4+2 = BAB +6. When calculating total BAB, you add the various BAB from all sources. An Ogre Mnk4/Sor4 would have BAB from Ogre levels and Monk levels and Sorcerer levels, and for flurry, the Monk BAB equals the Monk level. Also, keep in mind that an ogre skeletal champion is not a 6 HD creature. It is a 4 HD creature that has a cohort level of 6 (and on top of that, it is a CR 5 creature in terms of XP). Confusing, I know, but a 6 HD creature would usually have different starting stats than a 4 HD one, so don't treat it as a 6 HD creature for starting stats. Had another thought. Whirlwind: "Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent." Trip: "You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like I could make a whirlwind of trips. Might be a good way to maintain battlefield control. It also sounds like a character with a reach weapon and spiked armor would be able to make whirlwind against all foes threatened by either weapon. Yes, trip can be made in place of a melee attack, so you can whirlwind trip, and you can opt to use the reach weapon or the close-in weapon, but the weapon used to make the trip attempt has to be a trip weapon (or your hand). I'm pretty spiked armor is not a trip weapon. |
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