Post by reefwood on Nov 19, 2010 16:00:00 GMT -5
Craft and fabricate
Rather than respond to everything thing that has come up, I am going to present the general rules for how things work in Pathfinder and in this campaign. I know you already know some of this stuff, but I want to list it all out together and simplified for everyone to see. Especially since there are some minor changes and additions to rules too. Please read everything if you have any interest in crafting or having an item crafted. I know this is probably more than you need to know right now, but I'm trying to cover my bases in case related circumstances come up in the future.
1) The fabricate spell can be used to create an item but not to repair or refit it. A masterwork item can be created with this spell, but as per the Craft rules, this requires 2 Craft checks: 1 for the standard component (item) and 1 for the masterwork component. Both Craft checks must succeed to finish the item. If 1 Craft check fails, the spell will need to be cast again to retry the failed Craft check. If 1 component is ruined, only the raw materials for the failed component need to be replaced.
2) The raw material cost for an item is 1/3 its price. The price of a chain shirt is 100 gp. The price of a masterwork chain shirt is 250 gp. Looking at the masterwork component separately, raw materials for the masterwork component of armor cost 50 gp, and raw materials for the masterwork component of a weapon cost 100 gp.
3) The price of studded leather armor for a Medium humanoid is 25 gp, so the price of Large nonhumanoid studded leather barding for a warsteed is 100 gp (raw materials cost 33.33 gp), and the masterwork version is 250 gp (raw materials cost 83.33 gp).
4) Raw materials to create an item or component must be obtained from an equipment line that normally provides the already completed item or component. Additionally, you must be somewhat specific as to the type of raw materials obtained, and the degree of specificity will vary between different item types. A general type such as "scroll raw materials" or "potion raw materials" is usually fine because the specifics for these items, such the spell or an inexpensive material component, can be provided by the caster. However, armor is more complicted and requires a greater degree specificity because a hunk of metal can't be used to create leather armor. I look at the description of the item for guidance on this matter. Studded leather armor will require "leather/metal armor raw materials" which can also be used to create other armors that are mostly leather with some metal. Full plate armor will require "full plate raw materials" because it requires various materials (metal, leather, padding), unlike most other armors, and this means it can't be used for most other armors, but this raw material can also be combined with the raw materials for chainmail to create half-plate. Chainmail is based off the chain shirt, which is made only of metal, so "metal armor raw materials" can be used to create a chain shirt, chainmail, or in conjunction with "full plate raw materials" to create half-plate.
5) Raw materials have weight. It seems to make sense that raw materials will weigh more than the finished product because raw materials often need to be shaved or cut or otherwise depleted to shape the finished item. Using the Craft rules for guidance, I will say that raw materials weigh 1/3 more than the weight of the finished item. It seems like raw materials will be obtained for specific items, so it should be easy to figure out the weight. Raw materials for one suit of full plate cost 500 gp. Holding onto 250 gp of "full plate raw materials" is enough for half a suit of full plate, so it will weigh 1/3 more than half a suit of full plate (50 lbs/2 = 25 lbs/3 = 8.33 lbs + 25 lbs = 33.33 lbs). Also, I'm not going to worry about weight during Time Off, but if you bring raw materials on a mission, it will matter if it weighs 20 lbs or 80 lbs, and you can't make a 50 lb item out of 20 lbs of raw materials. Alternatively, excess raw materials can be stored in your equipment locked with the main army (or other secure location), but to use them later, you have to be able to access them.
6) Nimarious can fabricate masterwork armor, which can then be enchanted by the main army through unspent equipment lines, but this will require upgrade time as per the normal rules for creating magic items (8 hrs per 1,000 gp and work 8 hrs in a day). For example, turning masterwork full plate into +3 full plate will take 9 days.
7) Equipment lines from reward pacakges must be saved or spent with any leftover amount being wasted. I know that this new Craft info may change already selected reward packages, and that is fine, but any equipment lines spent must be finalized before that equipment is used, so raw materials must be selected in full before they are used. You can't wait to see how it turns out before deciding how much to spend. That being said, Nimarious has a high enough Craft (armorsmithing) modifier that he can't ruin the raw materials for any of the items proposed so far. However, he may not complete all the items during Time Off. Based on a timeline where Nimarious only uses enough teleport to collect his rewards (and not teleport skeletons all over the place), this gives him 14 castings of fabricate. 3 suits of masterwork full plate and 7 suits of masterwork studded leather barding will require a minimum of 10 castings and 2 Craft checks per item for a total of 20 Craft checks, and he can get all this done as long as he doesn't fail more than 4 Craft checks...I think...at least that's how the basic math seems to add up, but it could play out differently.
Finally, depending on what everyone wants to do, I might wait to play out the Time Off tasks and rolls until the start of the next session...which will be fine because this next mission will probably require 1.5 sessions instead of 2 full sessions, so doing this at the table shouldn't get in the way of completing the mission in 2 sessions.
Rather than respond to everything thing that has come up, I am going to present the general rules for how things work in Pathfinder and in this campaign. I know you already know some of this stuff, but I want to list it all out together and simplified for everyone to see. Especially since there are some minor changes and additions to rules too. Please read everything if you have any interest in crafting or having an item crafted. I know this is probably more than you need to know right now, but I'm trying to cover my bases in case related circumstances come up in the future.
1) The fabricate spell can be used to create an item but not to repair or refit it. A masterwork item can be created with this spell, but as per the Craft rules, this requires 2 Craft checks: 1 for the standard component (item) and 1 for the masterwork component. Both Craft checks must succeed to finish the item. If 1 Craft check fails, the spell will need to be cast again to retry the failed Craft check. If 1 component is ruined, only the raw materials for the failed component need to be replaced.
2) The raw material cost for an item is 1/3 its price. The price of a chain shirt is 100 gp. The price of a masterwork chain shirt is 250 gp. Looking at the masterwork component separately, raw materials for the masterwork component of armor cost 50 gp, and raw materials for the masterwork component of a weapon cost 100 gp.
3) The price of studded leather armor for a Medium humanoid is 25 gp, so the price of Large nonhumanoid studded leather barding for a warsteed is 100 gp (raw materials cost 33.33 gp), and the masterwork version is 250 gp (raw materials cost 83.33 gp).
4) Raw materials to create an item or component must be obtained from an equipment line that normally provides the already completed item or component. Additionally, you must be somewhat specific as to the type of raw materials obtained, and the degree of specificity will vary between different item types. A general type such as "scroll raw materials" or "potion raw materials" is usually fine because the specifics for these items, such the spell or an inexpensive material component, can be provided by the caster. However, armor is more complicted and requires a greater degree specificity because a hunk of metal can't be used to create leather armor. I look at the description of the item for guidance on this matter. Studded leather armor will require "leather/metal armor raw materials" which can also be used to create other armors that are mostly leather with some metal. Full plate armor will require "full plate raw materials" because it requires various materials (metal, leather, padding), unlike most other armors, and this means it can't be used for most other armors, but this raw material can also be combined with the raw materials for chainmail to create half-plate. Chainmail is based off the chain shirt, which is made only of metal, so "metal armor raw materials" can be used to create a chain shirt, chainmail, or in conjunction with "full plate raw materials" to create half-plate.
5) Raw materials have weight. It seems to make sense that raw materials will weigh more than the finished product because raw materials often need to be shaved or cut or otherwise depleted to shape the finished item. Using the Craft rules for guidance, I will say that raw materials weigh 1/3 more than the weight of the finished item. It seems like raw materials will be obtained for specific items, so it should be easy to figure out the weight. Raw materials for one suit of full plate cost 500 gp. Holding onto 250 gp of "full plate raw materials" is enough for half a suit of full plate, so it will weigh 1/3 more than half a suit of full plate (50 lbs/2 = 25 lbs/3 = 8.33 lbs + 25 lbs = 33.33 lbs). Also, I'm not going to worry about weight during Time Off, but if you bring raw materials on a mission, it will matter if it weighs 20 lbs or 80 lbs, and you can't make a 50 lb item out of 20 lbs of raw materials. Alternatively, excess raw materials can be stored in your equipment locked with the main army (or other secure location), but to use them later, you have to be able to access them.
6) Nimarious can fabricate masterwork armor, which can then be enchanted by the main army through unspent equipment lines, but this will require upgrade time as per the normal rules for creating magic items (8 hrs per 1,000 gp and work 8 hrs in a day). For example, turning masterwork full plate into +3 full plate will take 9 days.
7) Equipment lines from reward pacakges must be saved or spent with any leftover amount being wasted. I know that this new Craft info may change already selected reward packages, and that is fine, but any equipment lines spent must be finalized before that equipment is used, so raw materials must be selected in full before they are used. You can't wait to see how it turns out before deciding how much to spend. That being said, Nimarious has a high enough Craft (armorsmithing) modifier that he can't ruin the raw materials for any of the items proposed so far. However, he may not complete all the items during Time Off. Based on a timeline where Nimarious only uses enough teleport to collect his rewards (and not teleport skeletons all over the place), this gives him 14 castings of fabricate. 3 suits of masterwork full plate and 7 suits of masterwork studded leather barding will require a minimum of 10 castings and 2 Craft checks per item for a total of 20 Craft checks, and he can get all this done as long as he doesn't fail more than 4 Craft checks...I think...at least that's how the basic math seems to add up, but it could play out differently.
Finally, depending on what everyone wants to do, I might wait to play out the Time Off tasks and rolls until the start of the next session...which will be fine because this next mission will probably require 1.5 sessions instead of 2 full sessions, so doing this at the table shouldn't get in the way of completing the mission in 2 sessions.