Character Creation

[Rabbit]

Dec 21, 2012 17:38:59 GMT -5 reefwood said:

Welcomed Son/Daughter
You were born and raised far from Westcrown, but this is not your first time here. You know the city has secrets and are not a complete stranger to locals. You are considered law-abiding and get along well enough with the authorities, so the city's tougher side is wary of you. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (local) checks, and Knowledge (local) is always a class skill for you. In addition, you can choose any one law-abiding citizen of Westcrown as an ally; depending on the person you pick, you'll get different benefits.

Thanks for catching that!

Any thoughts on what was used as your childhood “armor” or the details of your first kill? Perhaps they were linked, or the armor helped in this fight, or it didn't help so much and led to the acquisition of real armor? Also, you are only supposed to take one trait from a section, and Armor Expert and Killer are both from the Basic (Combat) section, but they both make good sense for Gendrew, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Regarding the Killer; I imagine it not just being about killing but destroying. At an early age Gendrew showed a fondness and a talent for breaking thing. As a child any toy he was given would quickly be in pieces. This ties in well with his improved sunder feat.

It was clear that Gendrew's path would be that of a warrior. His uncles and father would humorously dress Gendrew up in their armor and were pleasantly surprised at how quickly he took to it. Before puberty Gendrew was spending his days with the Highhelm militia. Similiar to the 'ride-along' program kids can do with police except Gendrew was armed and armored. Perhaps his first kill was an orc smuggler or thief. The patriarchs of his family showered him with praise. This experience ingrained Gendrew's tendancy to 'dehumanize' and orcs and half-orcs.

As for the Sheriff... his name is Arik Tuornos (male Chelish human). He is the Durotas of the Rundottari (i.e. captain of the ruin guards). He is a cynical but fair man who knows this command is a posting of low prestige and social punishment, but he and his dottari take pride in their responsibility to walk the wall of Rego Cader (Dead Sector) and keep the threats of the ruins contained and out of the city. They are stationed in Keep Dotar at the far northeastern end of the sector.

If you want to go with the kickback idea for his assistance, you would know that he only uses this extra coin to help obtain supplies for his guards and would not accept payment from sketchy folks. He is not easily corruptible.

Sounds like the kickback angle doesn't really fit with this Durotas' personality. So lets drop it other than Gendrew delivering the occasional keg of beer (to keep the wheels of commerce well lubricated.)

Can we just say that Arik and Gendrew have a good business relationship (even a little friendly) because they're both straight shooters and neither of them like to waist time being overly social?

[icnivad]

Dec 21, 2012 17:38:59 GMT -5 reefwood said:

I just re-read the Pathfinder's Exile trait and realized you get a contact too. I have a couple ideas. Do you care if you already have the contact (and magic item), or if it can come up a bit later? Also, the Pathfinder books they mention to find more info are others than the ones I have, but there is some info in the Inner Sea book, and I have found more info in a book at Powells (forget which one). Sometimes the info presented is a too reveally about secrets, but I'll try to type up a little summary of what Renold would know.

I don't have a strong leaning about about whether Ren's already been contacted or not since it's a more stand-aloneish part of the backstory, and the item doesn't actually give my character any tangible benefit, just plot hooks. It might be nice to have it come up in the game, for tie-in purposes. We can say that Ren was attempting to contact the guild while he was still a higher-up in the church and starting to question their values. He hasn't tried since his fall, though.

I might be able to find a pdf of the two books they mention if you would be interested in reading it that way.

Dec 21, 2012 17:38:59 GMT -5 reefwood said:

Also, any thoughts on who bullied Renold as a child? Maybe that intertwined with learning to be a leader and rallying other children together to help fend off the bully? And based on backstory, I'm guessing his mother survived the birth... and perhaps it was divine devilry which saved her?

Yeah, I was actually thinking that his parents bullied him. I picture Ren as coming from a pretty dysfunctional family. Let's say it was a Cleric of Asmodeus who saved his mother as he was being born, and ever since then, they viewed Ren in a slightly tainted light. Even though he was an only child, they treated him like a second citizen; like the child they never wanted. Ren learned to avoid their wrath, and learned to hide his home life from others in the community. When he was old enough, he joined the church in an effort to please them.

Dec 21, 2012 17:38:59 GMT -5 reefwood said:

1) How did he feel about his parents before their death? And after his recent change of faith?

Ren spent a lifetime attempting to please his parents. They died with Ren never feeling like he was good enough for them. Now that he has changed his faith, that seems like a lifetime ago. Ren now sees the dark hold that was on his parents for what it was, and holds no grudge.

Dec 21, 2012 17:38:59 GMT -5 reefwood said:

2) Who mentored Renold on the teachings of Cayden Cailean? What was this person like?

I never settled on a name, but I'll do so now. Salorin Fronton was the travelling Priest who pulled Ren out of his despair. For reasons Ren does not understand, Salorin took an interest in him from his first visit to the tavern. He was a jovial sort. Quick to crack a joke, and usually the first to reach the bottom of his beer. For some reason, Ren never saw Salorin get drunk, though, but speculates that there must be magic involved. In fact one of their first encounters, Salorin was trying to talk Ren into heading out to go caving with him, and Ren stated, "Only if you can out drink me." Ren had never met a human who could out drink him, and assumed his victory was in the bag. When he woke up under the table the next morning, they went on their first caving adventure.

What Ren doesn't know (and feel free to shoot any of this down if it conflicts with anything you have going on behind the scenes), is that Salorin is a member of the Pathfinders guild. He was sent to make contact with Renold, thinking an upper level contact in the Asmodius church would be a good resource to bring into the guild. When he arrived, though he just found this drunk. Before leaving, Salorin wanted to see if Ren was without hope, or if he could be salvaged. Having set Ren on a new path, Salorin decided he should return and report back to the church before telling Ren anything because the situation had obviously changed from the orders he was originally given. That was just over a month ago (from the start of the campaign).

[reefwood]

Don't have much time to write right now, but the above ideas sound swell!

[michael]

Any thoughts on the magical creature/person who helped raise you? Is this how you were first turned onto magical alchemy?

Gettul's father was a Brewmaster himself, though of the non-magical variety. His mother was a wizard with a particular focus on crafting and item creation. Both had a strong work and achievement based view on life. Imagine Henry Jones in the beginning of Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade, for an idea of their parenting style. So, being an intelligent, magical, and crafty dwarf, Gettul's mother fashioned an Homonculus nanny for him. (p 176 of the Beastiary).

I have more in mind, and I'll expand this later.

[reefwood]

Spell Prep

Gettul
From what I can gather, an Alchemist probably needs 8 hours of rest (like a Sor or Wiz) in order to prep, and then, it looks like the time required is 1 minute per extract and 1 hour per mutagen. Does that sound right?

Renold
What time of day is the pray (dawn, noon, dusk, midnight)? Dawn and dusk change almost everyday in this campaign, but if you don't want prayer time to change that often, we could do it like once per session (or maybe once per week if it's a session that spans multiple weeks).

Also, Renold *may* get the opportunity to level up during the next session during the food break. Of course, you can wait until the end of the session if you want more time or want to wait to see how things play out but just wanted to give a heads up if you prefer to level up right away.

[michael]

Gettul
From what I can gather, an Alchemist probably needs 8 hours of rest (like a Sor or Wiz) in order to prep, and then, it looks like the time required is 1 minute per extract and 1 hour per mutagen. Does that sound right?

I read through it, and it doesn't say specifically that an Alchemist needs 8 hours of rest to be able to prepare his extracts. I'm fine if that's how you want to rule it, though.

Mutagens do take 1 hour to prepare, and I can only have 1 dose of mutagen prepared at any given time. However, once it's prepared, the mutagen remains potent until it's consumed. There's also no limit to how many I can consume in a day. Lastly, while mutagens have no effect on most people (except making them nauseous), one alchemist can gain the effects of another alchemist's mutagen

[reefwood]

Re: Spell Prep - Alchemist

Dec 27, 2012 2:39:27 GMT -5 michael said:

Gettul
From what I can gather, an Alchemist probably needs 8 hours of rest (like a Sor or Wiz) in order to prep, and then, it looks like the time required is 1 minute per extract and 1 hour per mutagen. Does that sound right?

I read through it, and it doesn't say specifically that an Alchemist needs 8 hours of rest to be able to prepare his extracts. I'm fine if that's how you want to rule it, though.

Mutagens do take 1 hour to prepare, and I can only have 1 dose of mutagen prepared at any given time. However, once it's prepared, the mutagen remains potent until it's consumed. There's also no limit to how many I can consume in a day. Lastly, while mutagens have no effect on most people (except making them nauseous), one alchemist can gain the effects of another alchemist's mutagen

I've looked thru the Paizo boards, and it looks like you may be right about not needing rest time. It just seems odd that there doesn't seem to be a mention of it either way. Although, the reason may be -which I am just realizing from info on the boards- ...is that an Alchemist is technically not a caster or have any spellcasting abilities. Apparently, an Alchemist cannot take a feat or prestige class that requires a caster level or spellcasting. Nor does it seem like any Concentration checks are ever needed, though, drinking extracts and throwing bombs provokes attacks of opportunity like drinking potions and other ranged weapons.

Also, it seems to be a bit cloudy as to when extracts can be made. A lot of people seems to say 24 hours after the slot was previously used prepped, but also that it might be tricky to track the times that each one is consumed prepped. Though, I suppose if you do most in the morning (or at least at the same time), then having to keep track of the remaining few may not be hard. At least not at low levels.

Okay, back to work!

EDIT: Did Gettul use an extract to heal Renold in the sewer? I assumed so, but maybe it was an actual potion? Cos the Alchemist does not received a Discovery until 2nd level, and without the Infusion Discovery, others cannot use his extracts.

[michael]

Did Gettul use an extract to heal Renold in the sewer? I assumed so, but maybe it was an actual potion? Cos the Alchemist does not received a Discovery until 2nd level, and without the Infusion Discovery, others cannot use his extracts.

I did use an extract. However, the text only talks about how it works with the extract in the bottle, not really the act of consumption. Extracts cannot be carried by other people, but I think others could still gain the benefits if I was the one pouring it down their throats.

An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist’s possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below).

I would say that Gettul feeding someone else an extract doesn't count as passing it out, since it's in his possession the entire time and he uses his action to activate its effects.

It just seems odd that there doesn't seem to be a mention of it either way. Although, the reason may be -which I am just realizing from info on the boards- ...is that an Alchemist is technically not a caster or have any spellcasting abilities.

So, does the bonus from Magical Knack still apply? I think there are enough analogues that it's still pretty straightforward. Plus, an Homonculus as the magical creature that helped raise me fits in well with an increased magical ability outside of traditional casting.

[Rabbit]

This post is kind of a note for myself on my projected character build.

Fighter Two-Handed Fighter Variant
Feats
*1st - Power Attack
*1st Fighter - Improved Sunder
2nd Fighter - Cleave
3rd – Combat Reflexes
4th Fighter - Greater Cleave
5th - Greater Sunder

EDIT 04/29: Taking Levels in Barbarian (Breaker).
EDIT 04/29: Need to improve AC! Upgrade armor and get magic items!

[michael]

One of the APG feats lets me learn a new discovery, and there are a few Discoveries I'm interested in.

Explosive Bombs - Splash damage is 10 feet instead of 5. The person I target with my bomb is lit on fire.
Precise Bombs - I can choose up to 3 squares not affected by the splash damage from my bombs.
Infusion - Others can carry and drink my extracts.
Feral Mutation - I gain 2 claws and a bite attack when I take a mutagen.

Still deciding which ones I want first.

[icnivad]

Michael: looking at those abilities:
Explosive Bombs: This sounds awesome, except it seems like someone is always in melee with your combatants.
Precise bombs: This sounds good
Infusions: This sounds good
Feral Mutation: This sounds good if you're ready to enter the melee role, which you'd mentioned you wanted to wait on.

[reefwood]

Re: Alchemist - Extracts, Magical Knack

Dec 28, 2012 19:44:20 GMT -5 michael said:

Did Gettul use an extract to heal Renold in the sewer? I assumed so, but maybe it was an actual potion? Cos the Alchemist does not received a Discovery until 2nd level, and without the Infusion Discovery, others cannot use his extracts.

I did use an extract. However, the text only talks about how it works with the extract in the bottle, not really the act of consumption. Extracts cannot be carried by other people, but I think others could still gain the benefits if I was the one pouring it down their throats.

An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist’s possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below).

I would say that Gettul feeding someone else an extract doesn't count as passing it out, since it's in his possession the entire time and he uses his action to activate its effects.

We covered this at the last session, but just to get my thoughts down... I believe the intent is that only the Alchemist can use the extracts that he makes (bombs and mutagens work similarly but have some different nuances). The Alchemist can hand an extract to someone else, but it becomes inert until it returns to the Alchemist. The exception to this is the Infusion discovery, which gives it extra magical power that allows others to use his extracts.

Even with getting more specific about the wording, putting an extract in someone else's mouth/throat/stomach would be the same as putting it in someone else's hand. The Alchemist no longer possess the extract, so it becomes inert. Whereas, when the Alchemist drinks his extract, it moves from his hand to his mouth but remains in his possession, so it remains active. This is not like casting where someone can (or must) transfer the magic to other people or items.

Bombs become inert is carried or used by anyone else.

Mutagens cannot be used by non-Alchemists, but other Alchemists can use them, but once the original Alchemist makes a new mutagen, the effect of the one drank by the other Alchemist ends.

Dec 28, 2012 19:44:20 GMT -5 michael said:

It just seems odd that there doesn't seem to be a mention of it either way. Although, the reason may be -which I am just realizing from info on the boards- ...is that an Alchemist is technically not a caster or have any spellcasting abilities.

So, does the bonus from Magical Knack still apply? I think there are enough analogues that it's still pretty straightforward. Plus, an Homonculus as the magical creature that helped raise me fits in well with an increased magical ability outside of traditional casting.

Magical Knack doesn't have a prerequisite, so I suppose anyone could take this even if they don't start with a caster level (perhaps a Fighter who will later multiclass with Sorcerer), and applying this to the limited "caster level equal to class level" seems fine. Just remember that the Alchemist doesn't have an actual caster level.

Also, here is some info from the APG Errata:

• Page 27—in the Alchemy class feature, in the seventh paragraph, add following sentence before the last sentence: An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard

• Page 28—In the Bomb class feature, in the second paragraph, in the f irst sentence, change “Creating and throwing” to “Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing.”

• Page 32—In the Alchemist Formulae section, in the 2nd-Level Alchemist Formulae paragraph, change “restoration, see invisibility” to “restoration (lesser), see invisibility."

---

Jan 2, 2013 15:26:53 GMT -5 michael said:

One of the APG feats lets me learn a new discovery, and there are a few Discoveries I'm interested in.

Explosive Bombs - Splash damage is 10 feet instead of 5. The person I target with my bomb is lit on fire.
Precise Bombs - I can choose up to 3 squares not affected by the splash damage from my bombs.
Infusion - Others can carry and drink my extracts.
Feral Mutation - I gain 2 claws and a bite attack when I take a mutagen.

Still deciding which ones I want first.

Infusion might just depend on whether there are many extracts you want to give others at low-levels, or if that will mostly come up at higher levels?

Explosive Bombs and Precise Bombs sound like a really good combo.

icnivad has a good point about Feral Mutagen.

[reefwood]

Alchemist - Alchemist's Kit

Michael - I forgot to mention this at the first gaming session but remembered that the Alchemist needs something like the equivalent of a spell component pouch to do his mojo. Did you get one of these?

Alchemist's Kit (25 gp, 5 lbs)
An alchemist with an alchemist's kit is assumed to have all the material components needed for his extracts, mutagens, and bombs, except for those components that have a specific cost. An alchemist's kit provides no bonuses on Craft (alchemy) checks.

[Rabbit]

Here are some semi-random questions regarding natural attacks and primary attacks in Pathfinder.

If a character has a pair of claws (like the feat quoted below) as primary natural weapons does that mean on a standard attack they use one claw attack (claw 1d4) and on a full attack they use both attacks (claw 1d4, claw 1d4)?

Aspect of the Beast, feat
Claws of the Beast (Ex): You grow a pair of claws. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage (1d3 if you are Small).

Also, if a character had multiple primary natural attacks (say from both the feat above and the racial trait below) would they then get three attacks during a full round attack (claw 1d4, claw 1d4, bite 1d4)?

Half Orc, racial trait:
Toothy: Some half-orcs' vestigial tusks are massive and sharp, granting a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 points of piercing damage. This racial trait replaces the orc ferocity racial trait.

[reefwood]

Jun 14, 2013 12:59:56 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

Here are some semi-random questions regarding natural attacks and primary attacks in Pathfinder.

I'm not able to get it to load for me right now, but the online PRD should have more details on all this under the Natural Attack entry of the Bestiary -I think in the Universal Monster Rules chapter- but I can answer these particular questions...

Jun 14, 2013 12:59:56 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

If a character has a pair of claws (like the feat quoted below) as primary natural weapons does that mean on a standard attack they use one claw attack (claw 1d4) and on a full attack they use both attacks (claw 1d4, claw 1d4)?

Aspect of the Beast, feat
Claws of the Beast (Ex): You grow a pair of claws. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage (1d3 if you are Small).

Yes! It doesn't straight up say "2 claws" but a pair of claws is clearly 2 claws and generally accepted as that.

Jun 14, 2013 12:59:56 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

Also, if a character had multiple primary natural attacks (say from both the feat above and the racial trait below) would they then get three attacks during a full round attack (claw 1d4, claw 1d4, bite 1d4)?

Half Orc, racial trait:
Toothy: Some half-orcs' vestigial tusks are massive and sharp, granting a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 points of piercing damage. This racial trait replaces the orc ferocity racial trait.

Yes!

Furthermore, natural attacks are now all set as primary or secondary natural attacks, regardless of how many you get. For example, I believe a bite and claw is a primary, so a claw-claw-bite attack would all get the same general attack bonuses. However, manufactured weapon attacks trump natural attacks in the sense that if you held a sword in one claw to do sword-claw-bite, the sword would be a primary attack and the remaining claw-bite would be treated as secondary attacks (-5 penalty to attack). Also, actual secondary attacks (such as hoof or wing) receive the -5 penalty to attack as the general rule, even if you only attack with it. So, a creature with 1 bite, 2 claws, 2 wings that can use a sword could do these various combos:

#1) wing (1 secondary attack)
#2) wing-wing (2 secondary attacks)
#3) claw-claw-bite-wing-wing (3 primary attacks and 2 secondary attack)
#4) sword-claw-bite-wing-wing) (1 sword primary attack, 4 secondary attacks)

...and then sometimes there are exceptions, such as a horse trained for war being able to use hooves as a primary attack... and unrelated to hooves, but a heavy horse gains a bite attack, so the difference is:

#5) horse: hoof-hoof (2 secondary attacks)
#6) heavy horse: bite-hoof-hoof (1 primary and 2 secondary attacks)
#7) war-trained horse: hoof-hoof (2 primary attacks)
#8) war-trained heavy horse: bite-hoof-hoof (3 primary attacks)