OOC

[Rabbit]

Would a ring (or other magic item) to cast Darkness (2nd level spell) be 2,000 gold? It would need to be an item the user doesn't have the ability to cast via their class(a Summoner.)

[reefwood]

Feb 26, 2014 16:00:19 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

Would a ring (or other magic item) to cast Darkness (2nd level spell) be 2,000 gold? It would need to be an item the user doesn't have the ability to cast via their class(a Summoner.)

Is this an item that would have unlimited uses? Or be in effect constantly? Or only be usable a few times per day?

[Rabbit]

Feb 26, 2014 17:56:56 GMT -5 reefwood said:

Feb 26, 2014 16:00:19 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

Would a ring (or other magic item) to cast Darkness (2nd level spell) be 2,000 gold? It would need to be an item the user doesn't have the ability to cast via their class(a Summoner.)

Is this an item that would have unlimited uses? Or be in effect constantly? Or only be usable a few times per day?

I was thinking it would be activated (not permanent) and could be either unlimited uses or limited to a number of times per day. I guess that depends on the costs.

EDIT: there are some items available to fetchlings (at GM discretion) in the section I linked under character creations. Specifically "Darklight Lanterns."

If allowed this is a cheaper way to get what I was going for.

Darklight Lantern: This lantern does not burn oil, but instead burns shadowcloy (see below). When shadowcloy is used as its fuel, this lantern creates a strange, hazy darkness that decreases the light level for 30 feet around it by one step . Unlike when shadowcloy is thrown at a single target, this haze does not decrease natural darkness to supernatural darkness. One flask of shadowcloy fuels a darklight lantern for 1 minute.

[reefwood]

Feb 26, 2014 18:42:24 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

Feb 26, 2014 17:56:56 GMT -5 reefwood said:

Is this an item that would have unlimited uses? Or be in effect constantly? Or only be usable a few times per day?

I was thinking it would be activated (not permanent) and could be either unlimited uses or limited to a number of times per day. I guess that depends on the costs.

Actually, I just remembered this would violate the restriction of magic items found in the books. Although, you could make it yourself with item creation feats, which I think would also cut the cost in half, but rough estimates on the original prices are:

Unlimited uses: 10,000 gp
1/day: 2200 gp

I can do more accurate math tonight.

[Rabbit]

Feb 26, 2014 18:45:21 GMT -5 reefwood said:

Feb 26, 2014 18:42:24 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

I was thinking it would be activated (not permanent) and could be either unlimited uses or limited to a number of times per day. I guess that depends on the costs.

Actually, I just remembered this would violate the restriction of magic items found in the books. Although, you could make it yourself with item creation feats, which I think would also cut the cost in half, but rough estimates on the original prices are:

Unlimited uses: 10,000 gp
1/day: 2200 gp

I can do more accurate math tonight.

OK, And I just updated the post above with another question about 'dark lanterns.' You may also rule these are outside of the available options... but maybe not since I'm looking at a race outside the base rules and this pertains specifically to them...

[reefwood]

Feb 26, 2014 18:49:01 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

Feb 26, 2014 18:45:21 GMT -5 reefwood said:

Actually, I just remembered this would violate the restriction of magic items found in the books. Although, you could make it yourself with item creation feats, which I think would also cut the cost in half, but rough estimates on the original prices are:

Unlimited uses: 10,000 gp
1/day: 2200 gp

I can do more accurate math tonight.

OK, And I just updated the post above with another question about 'dark lanterns.' You may also rule these are outside of the available options... but maybe not since I'm looking at a race outside the base rules and this pertains specifically to them...

The darklight lantern is out, but here are the numbers if you are curious about creating your own item:

Use-activated or Continuous: spell level 2 x caster level 3 x 2000 = 12000 x2 (for 1 min/level spell) = 24,000 gp
Command Word (unlimited use): spell level 2 x caster level 3 x 1800 = 10,800 gp

For comparison, a ring of invisibility (spell level 2) is 20,000 gp, but no matter what, all this is out of the current PC price range. Although, an item with charges per day is adjusted by taking the above prices and dividing them by (5 divided by charges per day). Therefore, prices for a darkness item with 1 or 2 charges per day would be:

Use-activated: 24,000 gp divided by (5 / 2 charges) = 9,600 gp
Use-activated: 24,000 gp divided by (5 / 1 charge) = 4,800 gp
Command Word: 10,800 gp divided by (5 / 2 charges) = 4,320 gp
Command Word: 10,800 gp divided by (5 / 1 charge) = 2,160 gp

The only one currently affordable is the last one, and it would cost 1,080 gp to create yourself and have a Spellcraft check of DC 5 + caster level. This would be DC 8 at base caster level 3. Setting the item to caster level 5 would be DC 10 and have a price of 3,600 gp (creation cost of 1,800 gp). This spell lasts 1 minute per level.

A wand of darkness is out of price range (4,500 gp), but you could get scrolls of darkness (150 gp) and have someone else cast them.  The scroll lasts 3 minutes, so it could be cast when you predict combat is about to happen and should last through at least one combat.

[jenzugi]

Uh, Hi er'rybody! I'm gunna hop in next time. It's the first time I've every done anything D&D (minus making props), so bear with me as I ask stupid questions and sound like a total noob! (Mostly 'cause I am one!)

[icnivad]

To be fair, she invaded her first goblin den last night, and cleared out several goblins and an orc.

[reefwood]

Mar 3, 2014 19:53:19 GMT -5 jenzugi said:

Uh, Hi er'rybody! I'm gunna hop in next time. It's the first time I've every done anything D&D (minus making props), so bear with me as I ask stupid questions and sound like a total noob! (Mostly 'cause I am one!)

Woo! Welcome

I'll do my best to kill off your first character as quickly and painlessly as possible

[Rabbit]

One of us, one of us. Gooble gobble, Gooble gobble. We accept her, we accept her. One of us, one of us.

[reefwood]

I'll send out a more formal email with info about Adventure #3, but this one will be quite different than the first two, so I want to provide more of a heads up this time around. Also, this will be the first adventure that has a direct influence on the difficulty of the next one. Additionally, players will have some direct control over the types and amount of challenges faced, but any challenges signed up for that aren't completed by the end of the session (challenge stop time of 10pm) will be treated as failures, so it would be good to do as much as you can, but you don't want to try and do too much either. Plus, the more you try to do, it might be harder to keep things straight, so you don't want to wind up confused either.

The end goal of Adventure #3 is to gain approval for the establishment of a Pathfinder Lodge in the Hold of Belkzen. How that begins is by petitioning clans to consider your case. You will have 1 day (approx 10 hr) and need to get at least 5 clans to agree to consider your case. The basic mechanic for this will require 1d4 hours to get your case heard and a 15-minute hearing that will be decided by a Diplomacy check. Bribery can speed up the waiting time, and there will be various modifiers that can influence the check. Examples of influences are: all orcs hate dwarves, but opinions vary on half-orcs, and one clan holds giants in high regard. Also, appropriate gifts can provide influence. The player making the Diplomacy roll is the Petitioner and can have up to 2 Counselors aiding on the case.

If you successfully petition 5 clans (or more), you will make your case to their judges the next day with another Diplomacy check. This will take 1 hour. However, each clan considering the case will also have a physical/combat trial that needs to be attempted. You must choose a Champion to face each trial, and each Champion can select a Mentor to assist her either at the start, middle, or end of a trial. Champions and Mentors can be different players for every trial, but the entire lineup must be selected before the trials begin. All who choose to be Champions or Mentors are kept isolated until all the trials are over, so the only contact they will have is during their Champion-Mentor session. If a Champion dies during an early trial and was supposed to also face a later trial, the Mentor will take her place. Failing a trial doesn't guaranteed that they vote NO, but it does significantly increase the DC for their vote. On the flipside, excelling a trial can lower the DC. Once the trials are over, the DCs for each clan judge are calculated, and if your Diplomacy check meets or exceeds their DC, you get their vote. Majority wins, and in the case of a tie, the vote of the ruling clan decides the outcome.

Clans have varying degrees of power & influence (and even the ruling clans are only so much in control), and as such, it would be best to get the most powerful clans to consider your case and vote YES, but it will be easier to get the less powerful ones to do so because they start out with lower DCs and have easier physical/combat trials. Also, it would be good to get the clans that control the main road to support you, and this is actually a mix of powerful and weaker clans based on geography more than influence. And different clans support and oppose each other to various degrees, so the mix of clans considering the case can have an influence on each other - and even though you need to petition clans to consider your case, any clan can elect to join a case that has made it to the docket, so you may petition 5 clans but wind up with 7 judges/trials to convince/defeat. It can get complicated, and there is no way you will know all the ins and outs and politics, so it will come down to a mix of mission intel, gathering info, and best guesses as to how you select clans to petition.

[reefwood]

Combat Strategy

The group combat last night got me thinking about what would have been an ideal way to fight the skeletal monster. Because it didn't seem like a very difficult challenge. Certainly not a total party kill.  It had a lot of hit points but not a super high AC.  Although, a party is usually assumed to have 4 PCs, and adding Elana or Steve to the mix could have made a big difference. Also, it just happened to be that I chose an undead creature for a party without a cleric. Pratt's ray of exhaustion had no affect, but no one had a way to learn about the creature. Also, knowing right away that it could paralyze might have changed the strategy to something involving keeping a distance. Even if the monster could keep pace, forcing it move would have prevented the monster from making the full attacks that give it a chance to paralyze AND deal lots of damage each round.

Looking at the combat in hindsight and with knowledge on the monster, an effective strategy might have started with casting resistance (+1 resistance to saves) on anyone who might get close to the creature - this spell lasts 1 minute, so probably the whole combat, and would have avoid paralysis AND slipping on the grease. Fidget's tiger would not have fallen but would have still been paralyzed, but Fidget wouldn't have fallen off the tiger - which may have not changed the outcome, but who knows. Also, Taj using Spring Attack would have helped prevent the monster from making full attacks each round. One thing that may have been impossible to gauge is that it was very difficult to trip the monster. I didn't notice this until the combat started, but Taj would have been way better off making a regular attack each round instead of trying to trip it. Maybe a good Knowledge (religion) roll could have revealed this, but again, that was not an option for the group last night. What wound up being the most difficult part was the paralysis. I looked at spells afterward and thought restoration or heal would remove it, but they don't - not that those were options last night, but I got curious since it came up in Adventure #2 too. Then, I saw that remove paralysis does the trick. It's only a 2nd-level spell but only on the cleric and paladin spell list, so again, not an option for last night but something I thought worth mentioning.

---

Invisibility (re: attacking)

There were some good questions regarding what constitutes an attack that ends invisibility. I think some of this will just be on a case-by-case basis. Using an example from last night, casting grease on a creature or in its square seems to qualify as an attack that would end invisibility, but casting grease in front of a creature to prevent its movement would not qualify as an attack on the creature.

A bit trickier to decide is casting create pit directly in front of a creature.  This does force it to make a Reflex save, but not until the end of its turn, so when the spell is cast, no direct damage comes to the creature.  It just has to take a step back to be safe, but if you cast in a location that does not give it room to move seems to guarantee that it will fall.  However, it's actually very rare to have no option to move.  If your back is to a wall, you can try to Climb that wall.  If your back is to an opponent, you can make a Acrobatics check to move through its square.  If you fail the Climb or Acrobatics check, you don't move and will fall in, but that is a step removed from the casting of the spell.  Whereas, if you are paralyzed, then you really can't escape, but again, that's not directly related to the casting of create pit.

---

Adventure #3

The mock combats last night did help me think better about the combat trials coming up.  Success provides you a much better chance than failure of getting the vote of the clan that presents the trial.  I already have it set up in way that excelling at the trial gives you an even better chance than simply succeeding at the trial, so it makes sense that the way a trial is handled could have an affect too.  Not that I expect anyone to try and defeat an opponent by flying overhead and repeatedly casting acid splash, but it would make sense that orcs do not see that as a worthy way to succeed at a trial.  I won't be picky about every tactic used, not by any means, and creativity is great, but anything that seems too far outside the scope of what is intended could hurt your chances more than help.

In the example I gave last night about the trial with the burning room full of fire elementals which requires Strength checks to activate 3 levers to release water to end the trial... using magic to create water might extinguish the flames eventually, and that would be fine, but you would still need to activate the levers since releasing the water is what ends the trial.  Also, if you wanted to meet your Mentor at the end of this challenge, that PC would still be drowning until the water was released.

Summoning
Summoning creatures starts out as a 1st-level spell, so you don't have to be a master mage to do it, so it makes sense that it is something that people know about.  Not everyone can do it, but if you know magic, you probably know that option exists.  Therefore, for these trials, it should be acceptable to summon creatures (or even call creatures if you can) in most of the trials, but you would be expected to dismiss creatures at the end of the trial.  Therefore, Steve can summon Eddie during a trial but would have to dismiss him at the end.  Alternatively, Steve can summon Eddie before the trials begin and sign him up to be a Champion for one or more trials.  Also, I don't know the duration of how long Eddie can stay on the material plane, but just so you know, the trials will be held over a 10 hour time period (1 per hour), so if you wanted him to be the Champion for trials #1 and #10, he would have to be around for 10 hours.

Just so it is clear, there will be other people and groups trying to petition orc clans to create councils.  We will just focus on what the Pathfinder party does, but there will be other hearings going on all day, and all the trials will occur during the night - even the ones that the Pathfinder party does not participate in.  So, if you cast a spell that lasts 1 hour, it will just last for 1 trial.  If you cast a spell that lasts 2 hours, it can only be used for 2 trials if the trials are back-to-back (i.e. Trial #2 & Trial #3, or Trial #7 & Trial #8).

[reefwood]

We are starting to get into slightly higher levels than many of our groups have gone, so I wanted share a couple numbers just to give everyone an idea of the possibilities. Of course, I know none of your characters are straight up Diplomats or Fighters, so I don't expect these numbers to be the norm in this party, but these are just quick & easy to calculate and fitting for Adventure #3 as examples:


Diplomat (Expert 9: 18 Cha +2 magic = 20 Cha)
Diplomacy:  9 skill ranks +3 training +3 Skill Focus +2 Persuasive +5 Cha mod = +22 Diplomacy modifier


Soldier (Fighter 9: 18 Str +2 magic = 20 Str / 17 Dex +1 magic = 18 Dex)
Attack:  9 BAB +1 Weapon Focus +1 Greater Weapon Focus +2 weapon training +2 magic weapon +4 Str mod +1 Str mod magic item = +20 attack bonus
Armor Class:  10 +9 full-plate +2 magic armor +2 heavy shield +2 magic shield +4 Dex mod +1 Dodge +1 Shield Focus = AC 31


One other thing to mention is that the CR of NPCs with PC levels are usually calculated as class levels -1, and those with NPC levels are calculated as class levels -2.  Therefore, a CR 9 soldier could be Fighter 10 or Warrior 11.

[reefwood]

Great job everyone on the latest adventure! I haven't time to figure out the numbers yet and don't really know how its going to add up. Off the top of my head, I'd say you have the vote of the 2 least powerful clans on your council, the middle 2 clans could definitely go either way (will probably depend on bonuses, if any, from a good petition and combat trails), and your top 2 clans are leaning towards no (but it's not yet certain). It'll probably be very close no matter what, and you certainly tackled this complicated, multi-faceted challenge very well!

I'll be pretty busy over the next couple days with work and taxes, and I want to double check the petition rolls (to make sure you get the correct bonuses, if any, for the final vote), so this will be a bit slow-going, but it will help build suspense because rather than wait to do it all at once, I'm going to try and post the vote of one clan per day

Also, a few questions came up about items during the session. I think most were about creating items for gifts, but if there was anything you wanted to know about for your PC, just post them in here to remind me.

[reefwood]

I am going to make one final story post in the thread for Adventure #3 to wrap everything up. Sometime between today and midweek.

At the end of the week, I'll post level up info for Adventure #4.

Over the weekend or early next, I'll post story info for Adventure #4.