Chapter 18 [Snuffing the Flame]

[icnivad]

Jun 23, 2011 18:39:00 GMT -5 reefwood said:

EDIT: It looks like true resurrection is the only way to bring Skeletor back to life as an Ogre, and it would remove the penalty and doesn't require remains, but it is a Level 9 spell and costs 25,000 gp, so it is probably out of range for a while.

Actually, I think there's another way. See my email about using the clone spell. The downside is that it takes a long time.

[reefwood]

Jun 23, 2011 18:44:12 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Ok. I didn't realize we had left yet, I figured we would end the play online. This is actually a plan that I had at the table, and Nimarious would have grabbed some remains while he was taking the equipment off of skeletor. Although, if he needs to teleport back during his time off, he can always do that, too.

Well, it looks like it won't matter either because I believe true resurrection is the only way to bring the destroyed undead Skeletor back to life. This spell doesn't require remains, and it brings creature back to full ability, so it would remove the entire -2 penalty, but it is a Level 9 spell and costs 25,000 gp, so it is probably out of range for a while.

[Rabbit]

reefwood, I would also like to know what my leadership score would be if I took the feat. I can figure it out myself but I assume there are some campaign specific events that you might feel effects the score.

[reefwood]

Jun 23, 2011 18:49:19 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Jun 23, 2011 18:39:00 GMT -5 reefwood said:

EDIT: It looks like true resurrection is the only way to bring Skeletor back to life as an Ogre, and it would remove the penalty and doesn't require remains, but it is a Level 9 spell and costs 25,000 gp, so it is probably out of range for a while.

Actually, I think there's another way. See my email about using the clone spell. The downside is that it takes a long time.

Ha...we are posting and editing like hotcakes at this moment! Anyway, yeah, I'll check my email.

[reefwood]

Re: Leadership - Sahme

Jun 23, 2011 18:52:18 GMT -5 Rabbit said:

reefwood, I would also like to know what my leadership score would be if I took the feat. I can figure it out myself but I assume there are some campaign specific events that you might feel effects the score.

Yes, the main campaign things are Great Renown and Failure.

Great Renown (35 / 10 = +3):
5 AP (Ch 18)
5 AP (Ch 17)
3 AP (Ch 15)
4 AP (Ch 14)
5 AP (Ch 10)
3 AP (Ch 9)
Ch 8: Great = 4 AP (Brion & Sahme)
Ch 7: Good = 3 AP (Brion & Sahme)
Ch 6: Good = 3 AP (Brion & Sahme)

Failure (-1)
Ch 13: 1 AP (Brion & Sahme) --> -1

Cohort Leadership Score
13 Level +4 Cha +3 renown +1 fair/gen +1 special power -1 failure = 21

As long as Sahme recruits a cohort of the same alignment, he can start off with a Level 11 cohort because the cohort has to be 2 levels below the PC.

Follower Leadership Score
13 Level +4 Cha +3 renown +1 fair/gen +1 special power -1 failure = 21 (Levels 1 to 6)

[michael]

EDIT: It looks like true resurrection is the only way to bring Skeletor back to life as an Ogre, and it would remove the penalty and doesn't require remains, but it is a Level 9 spell and costs 25,000 gp, so it is probably out of range for a while.

You don't need True Resurrection, regular Resurrection would do the trick as well. It's a level 7 spell and costs 10,000 gp instead of 25,000. The tail end of the description for Resurrection reads:

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone
who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed.

You would need remains, though. If you rule that we didn't grab any pieces of Skeletor on the way out, Garm could recover them easily enough. If someone casts Elemental Body on him, he can teleport in, turn into an Earth Elemental, burrow down to Skeletor's remains, grab a bone, and teleport out.

If Brion levels up, it looks like his Follower Leadership Score will be:
15 Level +4 Cha +4 renown +1 fair/gen -2 failure = 22 (Level 1-6)

It would actually stay at 21. He didn't take followers on this mission, so as of this level up, he incurs the -1 "Left Behind" penalty

[reefwood]

Jun 23, 2011 19:23:08 GMT -5 michael said:

EDIT: It looks like true resurrection is the only way to bring Skeletor back to life as an Ogre, and it would remove the penalty and doesn't require remains, but it is a Level 9 spell and costs 25,000 gp, so it is probably out of range for a while.

You don't need True Resurrection, regular Resurrection would do the trick as well. It's a level 7 spell and costs 10,000 gp instead of 25,000. The tail end of the description for Resurrection reads:

Good catch. I misread that part to say the opposite. Although, there would be one permanent negative level, so that would reduce the Cohort Death penalty to -1 but not remove it entirely. But if there is a spell to restore the lost level, and you can pay for it, that would remove the penalty.

You would need remains, though. If you rule that we didn't grab any pieces of Skeletor on the way out, Garm could recover them easily enough. If someone casts Elemental Body on him, he can teleport in, turn into an Earth Elemental, burrow down to Skeletor's remains, grab a bone, and teleport out.

Nah...if you want to say that Nim took a couple bone shards, that is fine. Are you taking chucks of ghoul flesh too?

If Brion levels up, it looks like his Follower Leadership Score will be:
15 Level +4 Cha +4 renown +1 fair/gen -2 failure = 22 (Level 1-6)

It would actually stay at 21. He didn't take followers on this mission, so as of this level up, he incurs the -1 "Left Behind" penalty

Oh yeah, another good catch!

[michael]

Although, there would be one permanent negative level, so that would reduce the Cohort Death penalty to -1 but not remove it entirely. But if there is a spell to restore the lost level, and you can pay for it, that would remove the penalty.

Restoration can remove those negative levels, and costs 1000g worth of diamond dust. Brion has a wand of Restoration with 3 charges. The head of the Order of Kem also had 2,250 gp worth of a diamond/granite dust mixture. If we can separate them, (perhaps a job for our followers) that'd give us enough for a casting of restoration as well.

[icnivad]

Ok. I think I've finally decided. It was a hard decision, but Nimarious will be remaining in the land of the living for a while longer. The sacrifice to his studies just isn't worth it. At some point down the line, he will probably continue to study the artifacts that make undead and possibly lichify himself, but for the moment, I don't think that a zombie lord is really for him.

That said, he'd like to slightly adjust his todo list to be, a) Level up, b) build stronghold with PaO and any other necessary spells, c) attract new cohort.

Maybe resurrecting Skeletor in there, too. 11000 gp to bring back an old cohort that we won't use seems expensive, but 11000 gp to give my new cohort +2 levels seems pretty reasonable.

Reefwood: How big does a stronghold have to be to qualify for the leadership bonus?

Can the 10,000 gp diamond component for resurrection be broken up into ten 1,000 gp diamonds (the way we are using onyx gems)?

As far as the spoils, the stuff that Nim is interested in(in no particular order) is:
Amulet of Natural Armor +3
Ring of Sustenance (Although, Brion should probably take this if he still does not have one.)
MetaMagic Rod - Extend
+1 Flaming Amulet of Mighty Fists (although this is probably more useful in Sahme hands.)
Ring of Prot +2
The 8 Diamonds (If they can be used for resurrection)
Any spells or spellbooks with spells he does not already have.

The only thing that Nim might make a case for would be the metamagic rod, since he seems to be the caster of the group that casts the most spells with durations. The three spells Nim would use this for are Haste, which would increase to 30 rounds(helpful for everyone), Phantom steed, which would increase to 30 hours(which means we could "steed up" a day ahead, and command undead, which increases to 30 days) The other items is is interested in, but only if they don't offer more benefit for someone else (like protection for sahme, who enters combat more often)

[icnivad]

Jun 23, 2011 17:13:40 GMT -5 reefwood said:

If Nim levels up, it looks like his Cohort & Follower Leadership Scores will be:
15 Level +3 Cha +2 renown +1 fair/gen -1 aloof -2 cruel -1 align -2 death = 15 Cohort (Level 10)

I assume the alignment penalty will go away if I pick a cohort the same alignment as Nim, right? Giving him a 16? (18 if he resurrects Skeletor?)

Also, Rabbit: Your leadership score is awesome, you should totally get a cohort.

[reefwood]

Jun 23, 2011 19:55:11 GMT -5 michael said:

Although, there would be one permanent negative level, so that would reduce the Cohort Death penalty to -1 but not remove it entirely. But if there is a spell to restore the lost level, and you can pay for it, that would remove the penalty.

Restoration can remove those negative levels, and costs 1000g worth of diamond dust. Brion has a wand of Restoration with 3 charges. The head of the Order of Kem also had 2,250 gp worth of a diamond/granite dust mixture. If we can separate them, (perhaps a job for our followers) that'd give us enough for a casting of restoration as well.

Do you remember how Brion got this wand? The material component is included in the price of the wand, so it should say whether the charges are for the 100 gp version of the spell or the 1,000 gp version. And if Brion got it from spoils, I can check my records for the answer.

---

Most of this stuff was also answered via email, but again, it will be good for everyone to see the answers...

Jun 24, 2011 12:46:01 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Ok. I think I've finally decided. It was a hard decision, but Nimarious will be remaining in the land of the living for a while longer. The sacrifice to his studies just isn't worth it. At some point down the line, he will probably continue to study the artifacts that make undead and possibly lichify himself, but for the moment, I don't think that a zombie lord is really for him.

That said, he'd like to slightly adjust his todo list to be, a) Level up, b) build stronghold with PaO and any other necessary spells, c) attract new cohort.

Maybe resurrecting Skeletor in there, too. 11000 gp to bring back an old cohort that we won't use seems expensive, but 11000 gp to give my new cohort +2 levels seems pretty reasonable.

All this sounds good, but keep in mind that PCs cannot use their spells (or do much of anything else) for personal use during Time Off. Time Off is really only for earning income and having time to upgrade items. I think the only exceptions so far have been for researching new spells since that takes such a long time that it would never get done during mission time, and for automatically recasting certain longterm spells (i.e. command undead) that expire during Time Off. But otherwise, personal endeavors can usually only be done during mission time or side quests.

Can the 10,000 gp diamond component for resurrection be broken up into ten 1,000 gp diamonds (the way we are using onyx gems)?

Nope, it has to be 1 diamond, and this will be the case for any material component unless it says otherwise... such as diamond dust, cos you could grind several diamonds down into one big pile of diamond dust... though, I'm not quite sure how that would even be done or if you need to pay a specialist to do it. Anyway, I screwed up with how I handled the onyx for that first wand back in the day, so animate dead is the only spell that has this special exception.

The 8 Diamonds (If they can be used for resurrection)
Any spells or spellbooks with spells he does not already have.

The diamonds cannot be used for resurrection, but they can be used for other spell components, so you may want to look into if there are spells that you want that use these. Also, the spellbooks aren't of any use to anyone else, but Sahme can probably use all the scrolls, and I know Nim generally doesn't like spells that have expensive material components, so you may want to check on that as well to see if you even want to know the scroll spells.

The only thing that Nim might make a case for would be the metamagic rod, since he seems to be the caster of the group that casts the most spells with durations. The three spells Nim would use this for are Haste, which would increase to 30 rounds(helpful for everyone), Phantom steed, which would increase to 30 hours(which means we could "steed up" a day ahead, and command undead, which increases to 30 days) The other items is is interested in, but only if they don't offer more benefit for someone else (like protection for sahme, who enters combat more often)

The only thing I have to add is that multiple people can use the same rod. It still only works 3/day, but it can be split among the casters. You could even do 1 spell each. Of course, you still would want to decide who is carrying it into battle or most of the time, but even that could rotate depending on the nature of the combat.

---

Jun 24, 2011 13:32:54 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Jun 23, 2011 17:13:40 GMT -5 reefwood said:

If Nim levels up, it looks like his Cohort & Follower Leadership Scores will be:
15 Level +3 Cha +2 renown +1 fair/gen -1 aloof -2 cruel -1 align -2 death = 15 Cohort (Level 10)

I assume the alignment penalty will go away if I pick a cohort the same alignment as Nim, right? Giving him a 16? (18 if he resurrects Skeletor?)

Oh yeah, totally... and that should be easy avoid as long as Nim doesn't select a creature that sways towards a certain alignment. Any common race could be any alignment, but a Worg would be NE. I allowed strict alignments to shift by one degree for the first cohort (and will allow the same for Sahme within reason), but that was just for the first one, so if you lose your cohort, alignment restrictions could come more into play for future cohorts.

[reefwood]

Cohort Death

One thing I'm realizing is that Skeletor is a very unique case of cohort death, and it has gotten me thinking of other possibilities that could arise. Skeletor is undead, and the ritual used to create him was a one-time deal, so there is no way to bring him back as Skeletor. The closest you can get is the living Ogre he was before death, so he wouldn't even be the same "person" when brought back.

Under most normal circumstances, if a cohort is killed but resurrected, it will continue to serve as a cohort but with resurrection penalties (until they are removed). Also, if you dismiss a cohort in War Stories, there is a -1 penalty, but I am not applying this to the case with Skeletor because the Ogre that is brought back to life is so different than Skeletor. But if you dismiss a cohort simply because you don't like it anymore or it becomes weak or pretty much any other reason, then you get the -1 penalty.

Also, Garm would be harder and costlier to resurrect because he is an Outsider, but Brion could do this and keep him as a cohort.

And again, Skeletor was unique in the sense he was a one-time creation, so there is no way to make another skeletal champion, but any monster cohort will be one-time deal. If Garm is killed, Brion can petition Gorum for another divine cohort, but he will not get another hound archon. Whereas, a leader can go through as many human cohorts as he wants... at least until the death penalty stacks up too high

[icnivad]

I think it's also time to destroy all of my mindless undead minions. Sort of a cleansing. Is this something that we can do during time off? Or should I wait for the next session? Brion can probably destroy them all with one burst.

[reefwood]

Jun 24, 2011 17:07:41 GMT -5 icnivad said:

I think it's also time to destroy all of my mindless undead minions. Sort of a cleansing. Is this something that we can do during time off? Or should I wait for the next session? Brion can probably destroy them all with one burst.

This will be handled during mission time. It shouldn't take long, but seeing as how Brion will need to be relatively close to the skeletons to hit them with a burst, it could be dangerous if he rolls low and they all attack him at once.

Also, are you going to call other creatures to replace them? Or are you just done with mindless undead?

[michael]

Do you remember how Brion got this wand? The material component is included in the price of the wand, so it should say whether the charges are for the 100 gp version of the spell or the 1,000 gp version. And if Brion got it from spoils, I can check my records for the answer.

Oh, good call. I'm pretty sure it came from spoils. I've had it for a while, but I don't remember exactly which battle I got it.

As far as the spoils, the stuff that Nim is interested in(in no particular order) is:
Amulet of Natural Armor +3
Ring of Sustenance (Although, Brion should probably take this if he still does not have one.)
MetaMagic Rod - Extend
+1 Flaming Amulet of Mighty Fists (although this is probably more useful in Sahme hands.)
Ring of Prot +2
The 8 Diamonds (If they can be used for resurrection)

Brion doesn't have a Ring of Sustenance yet, and he'd be happy to have it.

Both Brion and Sahme are both usually in melee range more than Nim, especially since he's not becoming a Zombie Lord. I think they'll benefit more from the items that boost AC, if you don't mind.

Sahme is probably taking the Amulet of Mighty Fists, so I wouldn't mind the +3 Amulet of Natural Armor. I think Sahme said he doesn't have any deflection bonuses, so he should definitely take the +2 Ring of Protection.

We should look into what wizard spells use whole diamonds, and then decide whether we want to keep them or grind them into dust for Cleric spells. (Can we use the rewards package to pay someone to grind the diamonds into powder? Can I buy a mortar & pistil and have my followers do it? How much would each of these options cost?)

Sorry icnivad, I kinda just said I want all the items you want. You're definitely the person who should carry the rod, though. 30 rounds of Haste is fantastic.

I'd also like the +3 Cloak of Resistance and the Headband of Wisdom +3, if nobody else wants them.

Anything else not claimed Brion would put in his locker.