Out-of-Character

[reefwood]

Making Things

From what I can recall, we need to looking into the rules for:

• Brewing Potions
  
• Crafting Items (acid in particular)

Anything else?

[michael]

Those are the only ones I can recall.

[reefwood]

Brewing Potions

1. Pay one-half item price for raw materials
2. Prepare the necessary spell that day to be used up in process.
3. Craft (alchemy) or Spellcraft check. The DC is 5 +caster level. Failure means that time and materials are wasted. DM makes check if failure by 5 or more is possible.

Creating a magic item requires 8 hrs of work per 1,000 gp of item price, or increase the DC +5 to accelerate to 4 hrs per 1,000gp. Work can be broken up into 4-hr blocks. You cannot work more than 8 hrs per day. Work must be done in a controlled environment with minimal distraction. Otherwise, if you are in a distracting or dangerous setting, work only nets half the progress. If you are out adventuring, 4 hours of work can be done during morning prep, lunch, watch, etc, but it only nets 2 hrs of progress.

Potions (and scrolls) can take as little as 2 hrs to create if their base price is 250gp or less. Those that are between 250-1000gp take 8 hrs to create. Only 1 magic item can be created per day. Only 1 magic item can be worked on at a time. If a new item is started before the old item is complete, all the old materials are lost.


Ex) Gettul can brew a potion of cure light wounds for 25gp in 2 hrs because the item price (50gp) is less than 250gp, but I don't think he bought the materials yet.

---

Craft

1. Determine the item price in silver pieces.
2. Pay one-third item price for raw materials
3. Multiply the DC by the skill check. Result equals sp progress made in one week, or divide by 7 for one day of progress. Fail by 4 or less means no progress. Failure by 5 or more means you ruin half the raw materials and must buy that amount again.
4. When the sp progress equals the item price, the item is complete.
5. You may add +10 to the DC to craft faster.

There are no set rules about the time needed for a day of work for crafting, but in my world and based on magic item creation rules: a day of work requires 8 hrs, and you cannot work more than 8 hrs per day, but work can be broken up into 4-hr blocks. Work must be done in a controlled environment with minimal distraction. Otherwise, if you are in a distracting or dangerous setting, work only nets half the progress. If you are out adventuring, 4 hours of work can be done during morning prep, lunch, watch, etc, but it only nets 2 hrs of progress.


Ex) I believe Gettul got a 19 on his check to craft acid. Even if not, using that would work out like this:

DC 15 x19 = 285sp / 7 days = 40.7sp in one day

Acid has an item price of 10gp, so that is 100sp. At this rate, it would take Gettul about 2.5 workdays. However, he has Swift Alchemy, so he could do it in half that time (1 day, 2 hrs).

[reefwood]

Money Denominations

Jan 24, 2013 19:33:04 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Does this world have platinum pieces? Or some other form of common currency that comes in larger denominations?

This is a good question. Gems comes to mind, though, it's not like you can go into any shop to pay for stuff with gems, but who knows, there could be instances where they could be used as direct currency. Also, there are platinum pieces, but those are more for the rick folks, so not common outside the Crown Sector island.

[icnivad]

Ways to repair magic items:
I was looking into ways to repair magic items, since it seems to be coming up, and I wanted to echo out my findings and make sure I'm understanding things correctly:

Weapon and armor Caster Level = 3x the bonus.(min 5). Special abilities all have their own caster level.
+1 greatsword = Cast Level 5
+2 Chain Shirt = Cast Level 6
+3 mace = Caster Level 9

Make Whole (Spell, L2)
You Must have a caster level = twice the level of the item.
+1 greatsword: Cast Level 10
+2 Chain Shirt: Cast level 12
+3 Mace: Cast level 18

Craft Magic Arms and Armor
It must be an item you can create, so your caster level = the item level.
+1 greatsword = Cast Level 5
+2 Chain Shirt = Cast Level 6
+3 mace = Caster Level 9

Hiring a caster to repair
Are there prices listed anywhere for this?

Any other spells to do this?

[icnivad]

Ways to repair magic items:
I was looking into ways to repair magic items, since it seems to be coming up, and I wanted to echo out my findings and make sure I'm understanding things correctly:

Weapon and armor Caster Level = 3x the bonus.(min 5). Special abilities all have their own caster level.
+1 greatsword = Cast Level 5
+2 Chain Shirt = Cast Level 6
+3 mace = Caster Level 9

Make Whole (Spell, L2)
You Must have a caster level = twice the level of the item.
+1 greatsword: Cast Level 10
+2 Chain Shirt: Cast level 12
+3 Mace: Cast level 18

Craft Magic Arms and Armor
It must be an item you can create, so your caster level = the item level.
+1 greatsword = Cast Level 5
+2 Chain Shirt = Cast Level 6
+3 mace = Caster Level 9

Hiring a caster to repair
Are there prices listed anywhere for this?

Any other spells to do this?

Edit:
Another rule question. Can powers be added to Staves in the same way they can to weapons? For example, can a staff of Fireball (10 charges), be turned into a Staff of Fireball+Lighting (10 charges)

[michael]

I think you're partially mistaken about the caster level needed to repair things with Make Whole. You're thinking about repairing destroyed magic items, but the items we need to fix are only broken, which is a different condition.

Here's the description of Make Whole.

This spell functions as mending, except that it repairs 1d6 points
of damage per level when cast on a construct creature (maximum
5d6).

Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or
less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster
level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as
wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot
be repaired in this way. When make whole is used on a construct
creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell
did not allow spell resistance.

And here's Mending.

This spell repairs damaged objects, restoring 1d4 hit points to
the object. If the object has the broken condition, this condition
is removed if the object is restored to at least half its original
hit points. All of the pieces of an object must be present for this
spell to function. Magic items can be repaired by this spell, but
you must have a caster level equal to or higher than that of the
object. Magic items that are destroyed (at 0 hit points or less) can
be repaired with this spell, but this spell does not restore their
magic abilities. This spell does not affect creatures (including
constructs). This spell has no effect on objects that have been
warped or otherwise transmuted, but it can still repair damage
done to such items.

So at CL 5, you can repair any +1 weapon or armor using Make Whole, and any +2 weapon or armor at CL 6.

And there's a specific section about repairing magic items on page 459 of the core rulebook. It looks like the only ways to do it are the Make Whole spell or by paying for the repair cost of 1/2 the item cost, at least as far as the Core rulebook goes. Or a Wish or Miracle spell, I suppose.

[icnivad]

Oh, that's a lot easier. It also looks like the caster level of an item can be lower than the caster's minimum level. So, a +1 weapon would have a caster level of 3, although it would require a caster who is at least 5th level to create. (This is like how you can create first level wands or scrolls at a casterlevel 1.)

So, Ren could repair a +1 weapon or armor using Make Whole, but not +2.

[reefwood]

Repair Magic Items

Reading through the rules, it seems like they may be a little off with how they are written. I did some poking around on the Paizo messageboard, which seems to confirm this, but I don't have time to sort it all out or come to a conclusion right now. However, these are the rules and some of my thoughts...

Broken: Items that have taken damage in excess of half their total hit points gain the broken condition, meaning they are less effective at their designated task. The broken condition has the following effects, depending upon the item.

* If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.
* If the item is a suit of armor or a shield, the bonus it grants to AC is halved, rounding down. Broken armor doubles its armor check penalty on skills.
* If the item is a tool needed for a skill, any skill check made with the item takes a –2 penalty.
* If the item is a wand or staff, it uses up twice as many charges when used.
* If the item does not fit into any of these categories, the broken condition has no effect on its use.

Items with the broken condition, regardless of type, are worth 75% of their normal value. If the item is magical, it can only be repaired with a mending or make whole spell cast by a character with a caster level equal to or higher than the item's. Items lose the broken condition if the spell restores the object to half its original hit points or higher. Non-magical items can be repaired in a similar fashion, or through the Craft skill used to create it. Generally speaking, this requires a DC 20 Craft check and 1 hour of work per point of damage to be repaired. Most craftsmen charge one-tenth the item's total cost to repair such damage (more if the item is badly damaged or ruined).


Craft

Repair Items: You can repair an item by making checks against the same DC that it took to make the item in the first place. The cost of repairing an item is one-fifth of the item's price.

This sounds like magic items can only be repaired with spells. Nonmagic items can be repaired with Craft checks and 1 hr of work for each point of damage. Also, if you pay someone to repair an item, they will usually charge 1/10th the item price for the work... and this would be on top of the cost to repair the damage, which doesn't seem to be stated anywhere here is 1/5th the item price.

Repairing Magic Items

Repairing a magic item requires material components equal to half the cost to create the item, and requires half the time. The make whole spell can also repair a damaged (or even a destroyed) magic items—if the caster is high enough level.

This sounds like magic items can be repaired with spells or Craft checks. But that the cost and time of making a Craft check are ridiculously more (easily thousands of gold, which could take months to craft) than the free cost & 10 minutes of time per casting (and multiple castings may be necessary - see below). This seems terribly unbalanced.

Although, now that I think about it more... maybe it's not Craft checks by anyone... maybe it's Spellcraft checks by anyone who can make that kind of item? Also, this wouldn't take months. It would take the 8 hrs per 1,000 gp - just like creating magic items - although, the expense would still be totally out of whack if the casting was free. Additionally, in this case, I would say that someone with the Master Craftsman feat that lets you make magic arms & armor would be able to repair them too.

Regardless of the particulars, it seems like the section that is specific to magic items would trump any contradictions in the more general broken section.

---

Mending & Make Whole

Mending

This spell repairs damaged objects, restoring 1d4 hit points to the object. If the object has the broken condition, this condition is removed if the object is restored to at least half its original hit points. All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function. Magic items can be repaired by this spell, but you must have a caster level equal to or higher than that of the object. Magic items that are destroyed (at 0 hit points or less) can be repaired with this spell, but this spell does not restore their magic abilities. This spell does not affect creatures (including constructs). This spell has no effect on objects that have been warped or otherwise transmuted, but it can still repair damage done to such items.


Make Whole

This spell functions as mending, except that it repairs 1d6 points of damage per level when cast on a construct creature (maximum 5d6).

Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way. When make whole is used on a construct creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell did not allow spell resistance.

The make whole spell was bugging me because it fails to explain in technical terms how much damage it repairs. It uses the word "fix" which leaves things pretty open to interpretation. It doesn't say how much hit point damage is repaired with each casting, it doesn't say that the item is brought to full hit points, nor does it say that the item is brought to half hit points (which would remove the broken condition, and essentially, "fix" it)

Then, I realized that I had been somewhat ignoring the first sentence of mending, and when applied, the only thing that make whole does different is that it can repair constructs and restore the magic ability of destroyed magic item, but the repair process for items works the same, and you just have to mash them together:


School transmutation; Level cleric 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one object of up to 10 cu. ft./level or one construct creature of any size
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance: yes (harmless, object)

This spell repairs damaged objects, restoring 1d4 hit points to the object. If the object has the broken condition, this condition is removed if the object is restored to at least half its original hit points. All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function. Magic items can be repaired by this spell, but you must have a caster level equal to or higher than that of the object. Magic items that are destroyed (at 0 hit points or less) can be repaired with this spell, but this spell does not restore their magic abilities. Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way.

This spell does not affect creatures (including constructs). This spell repairs 1d6 points of damage per level when cast on a construct creature (maximum 5d6). When make whole is used on a construct creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell did not allow spell resistance.

This spell has no effect on objects that have been warped or otherwise transmuted, but it can still repair damage done to such items.


Therefore, mending (up to 1 lb/level) or make whole (up to 10 cu. ft./level) can repair a broken magic item (1d4 per casting) by someone with a caster level equal to the CL of the magic item, and the broken condition is removed when the item has half its hit points. Make whole is necessary to repair a destroyed magic item (1d4 per casting) by someone with a caster level equal to twice the CL of the magic item, and after the first casting, it goes from destroyed to broken.

It looks like mending is the way to go unless the magic item is destroyed or too heavy... or if you need that 0-level slot for something else.

[reefwood]

Staves

Feb 1, 2013 15:33:06 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Another rule question. Can powers be added to Staves in the same way they can to weapons? For example, can a staff of Fireball (10 charges), be turned into a Staff of Fireball+Lighting (10 charges)

I did see this earlier but totally forgot once I started looking into repairing magic items (which I will look more into later this week), so thanks for reminding.

A cursory glance at staves shows that a CL 11 is required to take the creation feat. Also, the cheapest staff in the Core book is over 17k, and the cheapest one in the APG is over 12k, so staves will be something unavailable for several more levels. Especially since there are probably only a handful of people above 10th level in Westcrown and the majority of those only have NPC levels or an NPC/PC level mix, so therefore, nowhere close to CL 11.

[icnivad]

Yeah, That makes sense that the it would take an 11th level caster to create, which might be kind of hard to find, or perhaps even impossible, with our measly reputation. For pricing, though, items can be generally be made at a lower level than the caster's level, though, which we've seen all the time for scrolls and wands. In fact, there are several example staves below level 11 in the magic item list. There aren't any examples of staves with lower than level 4 spells, but am I correct in assuming that there's no reason a staff with lower spells couldn't be made?

edit: I just found the line which I was missing: "The minimum caster level of a staff is 8th." So, I guess the cheapest staff would be 400*1*8=3200 GP for a single first level spell.

[reefwood]

Re: Staves

Feb 3, 2013 12:47:37 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Yeah, That makes sense that the it would take an 11th level caster to create, which might be kind of hard to find, or perhaps even impossible, with our measly reputation. For pricing, though, items can be generally be made at a lower level than the caster's level, though, which we've seen all the time for scrolls and wands. In fact, there are several example staves below level 11 in the magic item list. There aren't any examples of staves with lower than level 4 spells, but am I correct in assuming that there's no reason a staff with lower spells couldn't be made?

edit: I just found the line which I was missing: "The minimum caster level of a staff is 8th." So, I guess the cheapest staff would be 400*1*8=3200 GP for a single first level spell.

I believe you are correct about spell level. I don't see anything about staves having a spell level minimum. The staff in War Stories that Sahme found had fireball, which is only a 3rd-level spell.

Staff math is a little tricky, but that equation looks correct too. Although, I will follow the overall guidelines for any staves found in the world (i.e. at least 3 spells per staff, 1-3 charges per spell), but if you ever get a chance to make your own staff or locate someone who is able to create them, you can try going outside those parameters.

Also, it looks like a "single first level spell" staff would cost more than 4 equivalent wands (200 charges), so I'm not sure if that would ever be worth it (unless it was a spell that benefited a lot from a higher caster level, such as shield of faith, since low level wands with higher caster levels do get pricier). I know you probably don't ever want to make exactly this kind of staff, but it's something I just noticed.

---

Locating Equipment

Even before the crypt sessions, I've realized that I should retool the Gather Info equipment checks. At least a little bit as well as figure out something for magic items.

It makes sense that after a while, you will know of reliable shops, so finding a place to buy something may not be difficult, but it will be more about availability. Therefore, having to spend 1d4 hrs searching every time doesn't make sense. It'd be more about waiting 1d? days or weeks, depending on rarity, if an item isn't in-stock.

Also, it would probably be easy to find a dagger or even a dozen daggers, but 10 masterwork daggers might require going to a few different places, and 10 magic daggers might take a week or longer.

Of course, I don't want to get too complicated with this. It may that a Gather Info roll is required to find a shop the first time an item is sought out, and then, some sort of availability roll. If the item isn't in-stock, then a waiting roll or a single second Gather Info to see if you can track it down elsewhere. Similar or related items will probably be easy to find together (bows and crossbows, throwing hammers and warhammers, etc), and in general it may just involve adding modifiers together that the items don't share (i.e. one-handed simple weapon and one-handed martial weapon add together simple + martial + one-handed... as opposed to simple + one-handed + martial + one-handed).

Also, Rabbit told me about Settlement rules that I am going to check out.

[reefwood]

Re: Locating Equipment - Arms, Armor, Potions, Scrolls

I spent a stupid amount of time tinkering with this, but it gave me something to do while sitting at home sick last night and watching DVDs. The Gather Info check is relatively similar, but the more you search and fail, the harder it gets (DC increases) as there are less new places to search... but then as days pass, you can try the same places again (DC increase is reduced). Also, Masterwork is now a modifier, and special materials that are considered masterwork must add this to their check.

Success on Gather Info means you found places that carry what you want, and the big new thing is the availability roll to see if they have the item(s) in-stock. You make a separate availability roll for each different kind of item (and may be able to find multiple copies of the same item). If the item isn't in-stock, they can tell you how many days until is expected (i.e. new shipment, item completed, etc). This way, you don't have to spend time searching every day (unless you want to make a new Gather Info check to try and find it sooner with the increasing DC), but you do have to make another 1d4 hr time roll on the day it is expected. If you don't pay for the item by the due date, you have to make a new availability roll.

The one thing about this system is that it assumes you hit up various sources and shops every time you track down items, as opposed to checking a single specific shop every time. I just couldn't think of a way to blend both methods well, nor do I want to think up a bunch of different shops for the multitude of items that may be sought out. However, if you keep buying the same item over and over again, things may switch over to that system for that (and similar items). For example, if you buy 10 spears over a few sessions, you may learn of a spearsmith a certain distance away who appreciates your reliable business, so you can always go there for spears first without a Gather Info roll and maybe even a bonus to the availability roll.



Weapons - DC 10 (Weapon Availability - 1d100)

Simple Weapon +0 (+00%)
Martial Weapon +2 (+05%)
Exotic Weapon +5 (+10%)

Light Weapon +0 (+05%)
One-Handed Weapon +2 (+10%)
Two-Handed Weapon +4 (+15%)

Masterwork +2 (+10%)
Special Material +5 per material (+50% per material)
Size +2 per category from Med (+05% per category from Med)
Magic +2 per +1 price bonus (+10% per +1 price bonus)


Armor & Shields - DC 10 (Armor & Shield Availability - 1d100)

Light Armor/Shield +0 (+10% / +05%)
Medium Armor +2 (+20%)
Heavy Armor/Shield +4 (+30% / +15%)
Buckler Shield +2 (+10%)
Tower Shield +6 (+20%)

Exotic Armor/Shield +5 (+25%)
Metal +2 (+05%)
Masterwork +2 (+05%)
Special Material +5 (+50% per material)
Size +2 (+05% per category from Med)
Magic +2 per +1 price bonus (+10% per +1 price bonus)


Magic Items - DC 10 (Availability - 1d100)

Scroll +0 (+05%)
Potion +2 (+10%)
Spell +1 per level (+05% per spell level)
Caster +1 per 2 levels (+05% per caster level)


Success indicates that you have located the appropriate vendor in 1d4 hours and may make an availability roll. Every 5 by which you exceed the DC reduces the time by 1 hour (or by 15 minutes once time is already reduced to 1 hour – minimum 15 min). Failure indicates that you did not find the appropriate vendor. Additional searches may be attempted, but each additional search on the same day increases the DC by 2. Each day that passes reduces this increase by 2.

For example, searching separately for a heavy crossbow, masterwork longsword, and cold iron spiked chain would require 3 checks (and could take a total of 45 min to 12 hr):
-heavy crossbow: DC 10 +0 simple +4 two-handed = DC 14
-masterwork longsword: DC 10 +2 martial +2 one-handed +2 masterwork = DC 16
-cold iron spiked chain: DC 10 +5 exotic +4 two-handed +5 special material = DC 24

Different kinds of items can be searched for together by applying each different modifier. For example, searching together for a heavy crossbow, masterwork longsword, and cold iron spiked chain would require 1 check:
-DC 10 +0 simple +4 two-handed +2 martial +2 one-handed +2 masterwork +5 exotic +5 special material = DC 30

Success is the same as above. Failure indicates that you did not find all the appropriate vendors but may have achieved a partial success and found vendors of some of the items.

Once an appropriate vendor is located, a 1d100 roll is made to see if the item is available. Success indicates the item is available. Multiple copies of a item may be available; divide the % total by 5 to determine the excess amount needed for another identical item. For example, a masterwork longsword is 5% martial +10% one-handed +10% masterwork = 25% total. If you divide this total by 5, it is 5%, so every 5% above 25% is another masterwork longsword available.

Failure indicates the item is not currently available, but each day that passes adds 5% to the roll. On the day the item becomes available, it requires 1d4 hours to locate it. If the item is not paid for by the day it becomes available, a new availability roll is required the next day. For example, if you roll 3% for a masterwork longsword, it will become available in 5 days when the roll increases to 28%. If you do not pay for the item within 5 days, you must make another availability roll.

Of course, this doesn't cover every base or even every item, so somethings will just be up to the DM. For example, what happens if you want to look for an axe and scroll at the same time? It will probably add a +5 modifier to the combined DC.


And here are some scroll and potion examples:

cure light wounds
spell level 1 (5%)
caster level 1 /2 = .5 (5%)
total = DC 11 scroll / 13 potion (15% scroll / 20% potion)

cure moderate wounds
spell level 2 (10%)
caster level 3 /2 = 1.5 (15%)
total = DC 13 scroll / 15 potion (30% scroll / 35% potion)

cure serious wounds
spell level 3 (15%)
caster level 5 = 2.5 (25%)
total = DC 15 scroll / 17 potoin (45% scroll / 50% potion)

4th level spell
spell level 4 (20%)
caster level 7 /2 = 3.5 (35%)
total = DC 17 scroll (60% scroll)

[icnivad]

Does this apply, also, to finding a caster who is capable of enchanting an item? Like adding +1 to my shield? Or down the line, increasing a Ring of Protection to +2.

[reefwood]

Feb 5, 2013 17:57:34 GMT -5 icnivad said:

Does this apply, also, to finding a caster who is capable of enchanting an item? Like adding +1 to my shield? Or down the line, increasing a Ring of Protection to +2.

Yes, but I'm still tinkering with the details.

Finding a Darkwood Tower Shield would now be:
DC 10 +6 tower +2 masterwork +5 darkwood = DC 23 (roll 75% or higher for availability)

Finding a +1 Darkwood Tower Shield would now be:
DC 23 +2 magic = DC 25 (roll 85% or higher for availability)

But the tower or darkwood part don't matter to a caster adding a +1 enchantment bonus to a shield. Maybe it will just be the masterwork modifier and a modifier equal to the character level needed to create the item (based on the item creation feat or caster level - whichever is higher)... and maybe the availability connected to that will be 10% per caster level, so finding someone to add the +1 enhancement bonus might be:

DC 10 +2 masterwork +5 craft arms & armor = DC 17 (55% or higher for availability)

Not difficult to find but might have to wait some days before the person has time to work on it, and then it would be in the shop for 1 day.

Using this same method, finding someone to upgrade +1 ring of protection to +2 should be:

DC 10 +2 masterwork +7 forge ring = DC 19 (75% or higher for availability)

Hmmm...yeah...maybe this will work for finding crafter-casters to upgrade items.