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Post by reefwood on Mar 26, 2010 12:18:19 GMT -5
Are these spells all core? I am really going to tighten that restriction. Otherwise we are going to have lots of non-core stuff again. Especially with your abiliity to learn new spells for the price of a scroll. Making exceptions tends to come back to bite me later. It's a tighter box of resources, but I am sure you can work your magic. (no pun intended.) [Edit: try using www.d20srd.org instead of http://www.crystallkeep.com] Is the "ability to learn new spells for the price of a scroll" a special feature of the cloistered cleric? Cos usually this requires a few steps even after acquiring the scroll: 1) Spellcraft check or read magic to decipher the scroll (even if you know what it's supposed to be) 2) One day of study that ends with another Spellcraft check 3) Writing materials that cost 100 gp per spell level |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 26, 2010 12:29:37 GMT -5
Right. that's all still required. Nothing special about the character. (archivist, not cloistered cleric, by the way). In fact, this is worse than a cleric, who just knows all of these spells without having to purchase scrolls at all.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 26, 2010 12:51:17 GMT -5
A couple that are on the top of my list: L1: longstrider L2: Bear's Str (and the dex, cha, and wis ones, too) Rope trick spider climb L3: Magic Fang, greater Haste displacement These are all ones that Duke Akermann can help you find. I know most of your first picks were core spells, but some were not. There are a few reasons I want core only. These notions apply not only to your spells but every player's access to feats, classes, equipment, and most everything at a player's disposal. -Balance: I have asked all the players to use core, so when some do but others don’t that skews the playing field. (Even if they are helping other characters) -Familiarity: Even core-only-spells provides a large and well rounded list to choose from. Still, it is a limited amount of spells that I am at least semi-familiar with so I don’t feel like a ‘DM in the dark’ at the table. If I get out-smarted at the table (which is a good thing) I want it to be because players were creative and did something exceptional, and not just because they used something I forgot they had. -Ease of Reference: If they are core we know where they are. Pulling spells from the unlimited spell book of the internet is hard to research, especially while at the table in the middle of a game. -Rule Bending: When using enough spells from enough resources a game inevitably runs into contradictions (there are plenty of those just in the core books.) Also, with enough unlimited options it is possible to circumnavigate the spirit of rules while staying within the letter of them. Maybe not breaking but bending the rules. I certainly know that it is fun and exciting to go through crystalkeep and other noncore resources. And sometimes core can feel limiting and perhaps too familiar, but think of it as a challenge. Maximizing use out of limited resources. And every player may get an exception or two in the career of a character, but from now on if the option is not "Core" then the answer will most likely be no. |
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Post by reefwood on Mar 26, 2010 13:40:40 GMT -5
Right. that's all still required. Nothing special about the character. (archivist, not cloistered cleric, by the way). In fact, this is worse than a cleric, who just knows all of these spells without having to purchase scrolls at all. Is the archivist an arcane or divine caster? Is he just a cleric that studies instead of prays and uses Int instead of Wis? And do you have to prepare spells for 2 hours to cover archivist and wizard spells, or does the mystic theurge have a way to get around the double duty? The arcane/divine difference probably doesn't matter too much, but it does matter for scrolls. I think all the scrolls you want are of a spell level you can cast, so they won't require a caster level check, but it could come up if you ever bought/found a scroll of a spell that is on both lists but that is higher than one or both of your classes can cast. I forget which one is higher, but it may be that an arcane scroll of spell A is something you can cast without a caster level check, but the divine scroll of spell A does require the check. Also, a few scrolls that are on both lists actually have different prices because arcane vs divine receive the spell at different spell levels and/or sometimes one version has a pricey spell component but the other does not. And I guess if something ever happened to affect one kind of magic or we come across a creature that fed on one kind of magic, it may matter if you are casting an arcane or divine scroll. |
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 26, 2010 13:47:00 GMT -5
And I guess if something ever happened to affect one kind of magic or we come across a creature that fed on one kind of magic, it may matter if you are casting an arcane or divine scroll. That is a good point. icnivad, I am fine with the scrolls you are buying to be the cheaper (arcane or divine) , but can you note beside each spell whether they are arcane or divine? I am not sure exactly when it might come up, but it could somewhere down the line. And you may or may not need spell components depending on the type. |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 26, 2010 14:32:46 GMT -5
Right. I have two separate spell lists where I keep track of my arcane and divine spells and scrolls. The archivist can only learn and cast divine, while the wizard can only learn and cast arcane. When I purchase a spell that is both arcane and divine, I chose one and only get that. If I want to be able to cast an arcane or divine version of a spell, I would purchase both.
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Post by michael on Mar 26, 2010 17:41:17 GMT -5
Ragnar is going to purchase 12 scrolls of Cure Light Wounds, if it can be managed. He'd also try to get his hands on a Periapt of Wisdom +1.
The constitution one would help with Ragnar's defensive stance, if you wanted to consider that. Also, since we don't have a dedicated healer, the HP bonus from increased con could be useful.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 26, 2010 18:05:15 GMT -5
Ragnar is going to purchase 12 scrolls of Cure Light Wounds, if it can be managed. He'd also try to get his hands on a Periapt of Wisdom +1. Not sure of your money situation, but a wand of cure light wounds costs 750 gp. 12 scrolls cost 300 gp. The wand is more than twice as much, but you get more than 4 times as many uses. The constitution one would help with Ragnar's defensive stance, if you wanted to consider that. Also, since we don't have a dedicated healer, the HP bonus from increased con could be useful. My guy got a wand of bear's endurance as a random item, but it uses up a third of his gold, so it needs to be sold to afford all the weapons/armor I want. |
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Post by michael on Mar 26, 2010 20:37:07 GMT -5
I can buy the wand, or we could pool funds for an item with unlimited castings, like the pipe we had with our last group. (We could even have gotten the idea from Ziff and Kuvpax.) Either way, I think we need something for healing between battles, and Eldrick's spells can be reserved for use in combat.
Something else I'd like to do is some research. I want to find out as much as I possibly can about hags and were-beasts, as those were the creatures that attacked my home. I think Eldrick made a decent knowledge roll on the hags last session, so I'd get what I can from him on that. Then I'd ask around about were-beasts, maybe do some reading as well. Since they're still in the city, I'd also ask Ziff and Kuvpax what they know, if I can find them. If I learn enough, I'll also buy a silver Greataxe, and maybe some silver arrows.
Any knowledge roll I make will just be an intelligence check, made a -1.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 29, 2010 11:05:06 GMT -5
Ragnar is going to purchase 12 scrolls of Cure Light Wounds, if it can be managed. yeah, I was going to suggest a wand, as well. At 15gp a charge they are quite a bit cheaper than scrolls at 25. Sometimes you can find used wands that only have partial charges. DM's discretion (gather information, maybe, to find something like this?). I think that Rabbit is likely to disallow unlimited charged items, this time around, because they are pretty far from core. (or even balanced). One thing he's mentioned that he would be ok with was Eternal Wands (from Magic Item Compendium). They never run out of charges, but can only be used twice a day. Their costs: Level 0: 460gp; Level 1: 820gp; Level 2: 4420gp; Level 3: 10900gp. If Ragnar came to him, Eldrick would gladly help him do some research in the city. His first stop would be to find a library, and peruse some books. Eldrick always keeps one copy of Scholar's Touch memorized, and with his Familiar helping, could read 16 books is 8 rounds. He also has 2 level 1 perls of power, which he could use to read 48 books total. If he slept, and prepared specifically for a "research day", he could cast that three more times. [Eldrick has a +14 gather information, if you wanted to roll anything. Knowledge Arcana of +16, and the other knowledges are +9, except religion and planes, which are +8] |
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 29, 2010 11:05:41 GMT -5
Something else I'd like to do is some research. I want to find out as much as I possibly can about hags and were-beasts, as those were the creatures that attacked my home. I think Eldrick made a decent knowledge roll on the hags last session, so I'd get what I can from him on that. Then I'd ask around about were-beasts, maybe do some reading as well. Since they're still in the city, I'd also ask Ziff and Kuvpax what they know, if I can find them. If I learn enough, I'll also buy a silver Greataxe, and maybe some silver arrows. Any knowledge roll I make will just be an intelligence check, made a -1. michael, I just wanted to reply to this and let you know that I saw it and have it in mind. I am getting info together for the next game and plan to address this when I have it all ready. FYI. And just a reminder Ragner also has an amulet that he took off the flesh-stitched creature from Arathex's crypt. A simple but strudy chain is fastened to a brass amulet. The amulet is finely made with the engravement of a pupiless eye in the center. It has no other markings. All, anything anyone else has in mind they want their characters to do within the next 48 hours? (other than buying equipment) |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 29, 2010 11:15:47 GMT -5
I just edited my post above, adding a blurb about helping michael in the city.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 29, 2010 11:17:47 GMT -5
All, anything anyone else has in mind they want their characters to do within the next 48 hours? (other than buying equipment) I would cast identify on amulet at some point, as well. |
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Post by icnivad on Mar 29, 2010 11:50:10 GMT -5
Purchased Scrolls:
L1 Divine:
Longstrider
L2 Arcane:
Bull's Str
Bear's End
Cat's Grace
Owl's Wis
Rope Trick
L2 Divine:
Spider Climb
Bull's Str
L3 Arcane:
Displacement
L3 Divine:
Magic Fang, Greater
cost: 1825
I looked up the rules regarding adding a spell to my spellbook. What it takes is a day of studying the spell followed by a spellcraft check of 15+spell level. I have a +16 spellcraft, which can get 1st and 2nd level spells without fail. Then he must copy it into his spellbook, "which takes 24 hours, regardless of level". This takes up 1 page per level at 100gp per page. At the moment all of the scrolls I purchased are just scrolls in my inventory. I'll try to slowly put them in my spellbook as I go. It sounds like it will take two days per scroll(32 hours of work, if broken up?).
I also looked into memorizing spells, and I believe that it will take Eldrick 2 hours each morning to memorize spells, although with his ring of sustenance, this still only means 4 hours total, including sleep.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 29, 2010 15:34:55 GMT -5
I've been thinking about wand charges lately. Wands are cheaper than scrolls, but they start out with 50 charges, which I am sure is to intentionally make scrolls a more viable option in early-to-middle levels and even later unless you want to cast that particular spell a lot. Although, if you want to make a wand yourself, there is no way to start out with less than 50 charges. And of course, wands only work on up to 4th-level spells.
But it does make sense that there are wands floating out there that have been partially used. For War Stories, it makes a lot of sense, so I don't mind that players buy several low charge wands. Plus, I think that versatility helps offset some of the rigidity of the overall equipment availability. Though, I may not allow such a thing if I ran a more typical campaign. At least not outside of character creation/starting items. So, I was thinking of a way to generate random wand charges. One idea I had is to roll 5d10, so a wand sought would have between 5 to 50 charges. Another method that might work if the DM wanted it to be less than 50 is to pick a number and roll randomly to add or subtract charges (i.e. 25+1d10 charges, or 25-3d6 charges, or etc), or you can get really random by rolling dice that add and subtract (i.e. 25 +red 2d10 -blue 2d10 to get between 7 to 43 charges, or 25 -red 3d10 +blue 6d4 to get between 1 to 46 charges). Just some ideas that seemed relevant.
As for identify, that costs 100 gp for the pearl component, so how do we want to pay for it? I think there was one game where the person who got the item paid the cost, or it just came out of the cost if it was sold. Or we could all just chip in 25 gp per pearl. It might be good to stock up if we go a route that takes us into the wild, but staying in the city probably won't require that. Maybe just 1 or 2 to spares if we want to identify something during the mission.
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