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Post by Rabbit on Mar 29, 2010 16:15:58 GMT -5
I've been thinking about wand charges lately. Wands are cheaper than scrolls, but they start out with 50 charges, which I am sure is to intentionally make scrolls a more viable option in early-to-middle levels and even later unless you want to cast that particular spell a lot. Although, if you want to make a wand yourself, there is no way to start out with less than 50 charges. And of course, wands only work on up to 4th-level spells. But it does make sense that there are wands floating out there that have been partially used. For War Stories, it makes a lot of sense, so I don't mind that players buy several low charge wands. Plus, I think that versatility helps offset some of the rigidity of the overall equipment availability. Though, I may not allow such a thing if I ran a more typical campaign. At least not outside of character creation/starting items. So, I was thinking of a way to generate random wand charges. One idea I had is to roll 5d10, so a wand sought would have between 5 to 50 charges. Another method that might work if the DM wanted it to be less than 50 is to pick a number and roll randomly to add or subtract charges (i.e. 25+1d10 charges, or 25-3d6 charges, or etc), or you can get really random by rolling dice that add and subtract (i.e. 25 +red 2d10 -blue 2d10 to get between 7 to 43 charges, or 25 -red 3d10 +blue 6d4 to get between 1 to 46 charges). Just some ideas that seemed relevant. I too have been tooling around with randomness for the availability of certain items. The more rare the items the less likely it is readily available. Other factors like the region and city you shop will effect availability. I know in the past I often would say, "...if it is in the player handbook you can find it." This will likely still pertain to most mundane and common items. However, things like a silver axe (or even cold iron items, and custom magic items) are going to be things that might be found readily made, but sometimes they might have to be special ordered which includes waiting for the item to be crafted. This concept of finding wands with used charges (but the amount of remaining charges being random) fits into that as well. I don't know for sure but I suspect icnivad's character learned identify as a divine spell which has no spell component costs. Is that right?
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Post by reefwood on Mar 29, 2010 18:21:41 GMT -5
I too have been tooling around with randomness for the availability of certain items. The more rare the items the less likely it is readily available. Other factors like the region and city you shop will effect availability. I know in the past I often would say, "...if it is in the player handbook you can find it." This will likely still pertain to most mundane and common items. However, things like a silver axe (or even cold iron items, and custom magic items) are going to be things that might be found readily made, but sometimes they might have to be special ordered which includes waiting for the item to be crafted. This concept of finding wands with used charges (but the amount of remaining charges being random) fits into that as well. Another thought I just had might be to link this into Gather Info and/or Knowledge (local). Gather Info takes 1d4+1 hours, so it seems like that time would be required regardless of what skill is rolled when making this kind of effort, and perhaps other mental-based skills could also be appropriate in particular situations (i.e. other Knowledges, Profession, etc). Some skills give extra bonuses when you beat the DC by 5 or more. Using the random wand charge method of 5d10, a way to implement this could be to drop or add 1 die for every 5 of the roll above the DC, depending on whether a player wants more or less charges. Off the top of my head, I might say the base DC to find a wand could be DC 15 and DC 20 for a wand with less than 50 charges, and the spell level added to either DC. A +/-2 could be used to adjust for minor conditions or +/-5 for major conditions. So using the method above, let's say Bob wants to find a wand of fireball with only a few charges, and being a sorcerer, he has an excellent Charisma and has a Gather Info modifier of +8 thanks to some cross-class skill ranks. He searching in a locale that has to special circumstances, so it is DC 23 (DC 20 +3 spell level). Bob rolls 18 +8 = 26. That is enough to find the wand. Whereas, if he had some means to boost his Cha mod by +2 for the duration of the Gather Info check, his result would be 28, so enough to find the wand and knock off one die for beating the DC by 5. The DM rolls 4d10 instead of 5d10 and gets 3+6+4+2 = 15 charges. Or if Bob wanted a lot of charges and got a 28, the first die could be maxed out as the bonus for beating the DC by 5, so the DM rolls 5d10 as 10 max +3+6+4+2 = 25 charges. If Bob somehow got a 33 and wanted a lot of charges, it could be 10 max +10 max +3+6+4 = 33 charges. This is just an idea for wands, but similar methods could be used for other items. Maybe special materials have certain DCs, possibly modified by locale, and magic items have a set DC that is modified by the caster level of the creator?
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Post by michael on Mar 29, 2010 22:55:36 GMT -5
Ragnar's intent with the amulet was to show it to Duke Akermann to see if he might know more about it, or glean some insight to the hags' purpose from it. It's something I would have done as soon as we got back, while we were telling the Duke about everything else we saw. What happens with the amulet after that is up to him.
One other thing I just considered: This is the note that referenced The Sisters and Arathex.
It mentions that they tried diplomacy with Durzh first. Since I was living at Stone Crow at the time, and brought on specifically for protection, did I hear anything about that? Did anyone suspicious ever visit, or did Durzh ever mention people that were trying to get at his work?
Considering what I read in the note and what I saw in the crypt, is there anything from my days as Stone Crow that could shed some light on things? Anything I knew about what Durzh was working on that might be so sought after?
If you want to handle this mechanically, I'm going to take a twenty. Basically, during the down time Ragnar is going over everything in his mind to see if he can remember something important, or put two and two together.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 29, 2010 23:53:03 GMT -5
Ragnar's intent with the amulet was to show it to Duke Akermann to see if he might know more about it, or glean some insight to the hags' purpose from it. It's something I would have done as soon as we got back, while we were telling the Duke about everything else we saw. What happens with the amulet after that is up to him. If Brae was still alive, he would have cast detect magic on it out of necromantic curiosity, but as a player, I just figured it was part of making whatever it was The Sisters were making. Showing it to the Duke sounds like a good call. Also, I now wonder if they were trying to summon Arathex because maybe something happened to his soul in the afterlife that turned him evil? Or maybe there's just something special about him that could be useful to The Sisters if they were able to bind and control his spirit. Maybe he is still good, or whatever he was in life, but with the right kind of magic, they might be able to force him into doing whatever they want? One other thing I just considered: This is the note that referenced The Sisters and Arathex. It mentions that they tried diplomacy with Durzh first. Since I was living at Stone Crow at the time, and brought on specifically for protection, did I hear anything about that? Did anyone suspicious ever visit, or did Durzh ever mention people that were trying to get at his work? Considering what I read in the note and what I saw in the crypt, is there anything from my days as Stone Crow that could shed some light on things? Anything I knew about what Durzh was working on that might be so sought after? If you want to handle this mechanically, I'm going to take a twenty. Basically, during the down time Ragnar is going over everything in his mind to see if he can remember something important, or put two and two together. That's some good thinking! Though, wasn't Ragnar away at Paladin school or something? I guess I didn't fully get a handle on what was decided for his background but thought he didn't make it back to Stone Crow in time... that all this happened while he was away. But if Durzh has some sort of specialty, it might make sense for Ragnar to at least know that.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 30, 2010 10:37:04 GMT -5
One other thing I just considered: This is the note that referenced The Sisters and Arathex. It mentions that they tried diplomacy with Durzh first. Since I was living at Stone Crow at the time, and brought on specifically for protection, did I hear anything about that? Did anyone suspicious ever visit, or did Durzh ever mention people that were trying to get at his work? Considering what I read in the note and what I saw in the crypt, is there anything from my days as Stone Crow that could shed some light on things? Anything I knew about what Durzh was working on that might be so sought after? If you want to handle this mechanically, I'm going to take a twenty. Basically, during the down time Ragnar is going over everything in his mind to see if he can remember something important, or put two and two together. Good thinking! yeah, you do. I am writting up some information for each player for the next sesssion. This will be addressed in some of the info I give you michael/ Ragner. And I like reading everyone's post as you try and figure things out.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 30, 2010 14:07:52 GMT -5
If you wanted a flatter random charges, you could roll a d100, and divide by half. This would give a number that's not weighted toward the center. I was also thinking of a good way to see what is available in a town. Maybe starting with a request is the wrong way to think about this. It might make more sense to have the player roll gather information against a DC that is set by the size of town and rarity of the item, then depending on how over they are, you roll the dice that number of times and that is what's available.
So, if Bob the wizard wants a partially used wand of slow with 21 charges, he would roll gather information +10 against a DC of 15. He rolls a 13, so gets 23, which is 8 over, so there are 8 wands of slow available, using an online dice roller, I get 1 charge 20 charges, 22 charges 2 charges, 47 charges 42 charges 6 charges 27 charges
And that would be what the player can find in that town. Then it's up to the player to decide if he wants the 20 or 22 charge wand. This way it's not just a hit or miss thing, but the better they roll, the higher the chance that they can find something closer to what they want.
And yeah, I have divine identify, so no cost necessary.
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Post by icnivad on Mar 30, 2010 14:20:48 GMT -5
I just threw together a handy little tool for rolling any number of die with any number of sides. www.meatbeer.com/dice.phpShould make it pretty easy to roll a large number of random wands.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 30, 2010 16:39:26 GMT -5
If you wanted a flatter random charges, you could roll a d100, and divide by half. This would give a number that's not weighted toward the center. I was also thinking of a good way to see what is available in a town. Maybe starting with a request is the wrong way to think about this. It might make more sense to have the player roll gather information against a DC that is set by the size of town and rarity of the item, then depending on how over they are, you roll the dice that number of times and that is what's available. That's a good point about rolling 1d50 to provide true randomness. Having a way to generate multiple wands makes sense too. Although, 1 item for every 1 that beats the DC seems a bit much. Only cos it seems like generally in D&D you need to win (or lose) by 5 to get more than the base result, but at least you can do Gather Info multiple times in a day, and I think I am going to jot some of this down for when/if I run a more standard adventure again someday. Also, the DMG provides gp limits based on size of the adult population. I can't find the info on the online SRD, but it is in a table on page 137 of the DMG. And that's a nice roller you made too. www.invisiblecastle.com is another good one that lets you make more complicated rolls, but it goes down once in a while.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 30, 2010 17:05:54 GMT -5
Gather Information takes 1d4+1 hours. A single Gather Information roll can be used for multiple ‘similar’ items (DM’s discretion.) Using a single roll must be declared before the dice are rolled. Gather Information Bonus:Knowledge (Local) + ranks to Gather Information results. Knowledge (Profession)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.) Knowledge (Craft)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.) *Only one Knowledge (profession) OR Knowledge (craft) can be added to a single Gather Information roll. A few clarification questions... 1) Let's say Bob has Cha mod +3 and 4 ranks in Gather Info for a total Gather Info mod of +7. He also has Int mod +1 and 2 ranks in Knowledge (local) for a total Knowledge (local) of +3. Knowledge (Local) + ranks to Gather Information resultsDoes this mean 1d20 +7 Gather Info mod +3 Knowledge (local) mod = 1d20+10? Or is it 1d20 +7 Gather Info mod +2 ranks in Knowledge (local) = 1d20+9? Or is it 1d20 +3 Knowledge (local) mod +4 ranks in Gather Info = 1d20+7? 2) Knowledge (Profession)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.)Do you mean Profession (something) or is this a new Knowledge about jobs in general? 3) Knowledge (Craft)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.)Do you mean Craft (something) or is this a new Knowledge about crafting in general?
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 30, 2010 17:14:45 GMT -5
Gather Information takes 1d4+1 hours. A single Gather Information roll can be used for multiple ‘similar’ items (DM’s discretion.) Using a single roll must be declared before the dice are rolled. Gather Information Bonus:Knowledge (Local) + ranks to Gather Information results. Knowledge (Profession)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.) Knowledge (Craft)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.) *Only one Knowledge (profession) OR Knowledge (craft) can be added to a single Gather Information roll. A few clarification questions... 1) Let's say Bob has Cha mod +3 and 4 ranks in Gather Info for a total Gather Info mod of +7. He also has Int mod +1 and 2 ranks in Knowledge (local) for a total Knowledge (local) of +3. Knowledge (Local) + ranks to Gather Information resultsDoes this mean 1d20 +7 Gather Info mod +3 Knowledge (local) mod = 1d20+10? Or is it 1d20 +7 Gather Info mod +2 ranks in Knowledge (local) = 1d20+9? Or is it 1d20 +3 Knowledge (local) mod +4 ranks in Gather Info = 1d20+7? 2) Knowledge (Profession)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.)Do you mean Profession (something) or is this a new Knowledge about jobs in general? 3) Knowledge (Craft)* + ranks to Gather Information results (DM’s discretion.)Do you mean Craft (something) or is this a new Knowledge about crafting in general? I adjusted the verbage. WAnt to check it out and see if it makes more sense?
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Post by reefwood on Mar 30, 2010 17:27:15 GMT -5
I adjusted the verbage. WAnt to check it out and see if it makes more sense? Okay, I think I'm starting to follow better. Let's break down this example: The +50% (base) I understand. The -10% (spell level) makes sense too. Where does the +4 (gather information) come from? He rolled a 16... is it 16 divided by 4? Cos that equals 4. Or should it be the number over 10, which is 6, divided by 2? So, 6 / 2 = +3? The +4% (know (local)) makes sense too. 1% for each rank of Knowledge (local). Although from the latest edit to the main post with the Gather Info info, it looks like this should be 1% for each +1 of Knowledge (local) modifier. So, if Bob has Int mod +1 and 4 ranks in Knowledge (local), it would be +5 Knowledge (local) and +5% too, right? And he didn't roll well enough to find more than 1 wand, and the first wand automatically has 50 charges. Had he rolled 17 (beating DC 15 by 2), he would have found a second wand, and 19 would have found a total of three wands. The wands after the first one would have had a random amount of charges, so potentially less than 50. Does it look like I spelled this out correctly?
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 30, 2010 17:39:09 GMT -5
I fixed the example above.
And at first I was using "Rank" which has now been replaced with "total skill points." Throughout the rule.
The other stuff you wrote looked correct.
How do you think the rule looks over all? I was trying not to make it too complicated and not too hard to find items. And even though the over percentages are not always super high, that takes up no more than 5 hours of shopping. So if a character does not find something they want in that amount of time they can keep shopping, time permiting.
I might adjust some number here and there but overall I like the layout.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 30, 2010 17:49:41 GMT -5
I fixed the example above. And at first I was using "Rank" which has now been replaced with "total skill points." Throughout the rule. The other stuff you wrote looked correct. How do you think the rule looks over all? I was trying not to make it too complicated and not too hard to find items. And even though the over percentages are not always super high, that takes up no more than 5 hours of shopping. So if a character does not find something they want in that amount of time they can keep shopping, time permiting. I might adjust some number here and there but overall I like the layout. Verbage sure can be tricky, as is playing with numbers. I've had a lot of that in War Stories with equipment/reward packages. I have to say that this percentage rule is quite different from what I was thinking, but it looks neat. Plus, I kind of like making percentage rolls, heh, though I'm not sure why. And it I think with a little practice and having the charts available, it should be easy enough to do the math. Okay, here's the other wand example I want to break down: +15% (base), check -10% (spell level), check +6% (gather information)... 21 beats the wand DC 15 by 6, but should it be 6 / 2 = +3? +4% (know (local)) for having a +4 Knowledge (local) mod, check. What happens if Bob has a Wis mod +2 and 7 ranks in Profession (relevant) for a total +9 Profession (relevant) mod... does +9 Prof get added to the percentage above, or does it replace the +4 Knowledge (local) mod? To me, the rules sounds like you just add it, but I want to double check.
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 30, 2010 18:15:25 GMT -5
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Fixed. I had adjusted the rules but missed some updeates needed to the example.
You are correct, you would add it. Know (local) and a potential Craft (relevant) or Profession (relevant) both add to the overall percentage.
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Post by reefwood on Mar 30, 2010 18:53:44 GMT -5
Okay, I think I understand everything now. The only thing that still seems off is that the wand Example #2 should generate 4 wands because it was DC 15 and 21 was rolled, so the DC was beat by 6, which is three 2's, so that would be one wand plus three:
DC 15 = 1 wand (50 charges) 17 = +1 wand (1d50 charges) 19 = +1 wand (1d50 charges) 21 = +1 wand (1d50 charges)
Yes?
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